Why the locking of threads?

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Lina
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

ryanw wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:31 pm
Pretty sure you can swap out an Aethos headset in 2 minutes, and they have discs...

So the OP of that thread was complaining about internally routed cockpits, not disc brakes, but still felt they had to moan about discs. Where is the logic in that?

Ride whichever componentry you want, but don't complain about something just because of your own incapabilities, as I said in the last thread.

It's the same as saying you should only ever buy cycling shoes with Boas, since you're incapable of tying shoelaces.
I keep noticing a lot of the complaints against discs are actually complaints against integrated cables.

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ryanw
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by ryanw

And this is why threads get locked, because you have just compared someone who can centre a disc brake callpier to someone who boasts about not having cancer to those that do. Well done, great from you.

And that thread was about servicing an internally routed headset, not adjusting it. And still, you do not have to remove the brake calliper to do this. But I would also hope that if you're willing to take apart an internally routed bike to service its headset, you'd be competent enough to be able to reattach the calliper and not have any issues.

It's also good practice when encountering issues to step back and examine exactly what the problem is, read up on aforementioned problem, rectify it and then share your experiences, not just come online and complain about it.

I'm always willing to help out where I can, not that I have all the answers.
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adilosnave
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by adilosnave

And this is how you always come across as attacking people, saying things like 'competent enough', etc.

Reason some of these threads get locked is because certain posters want to personally attack others for their views and opinions on things.

Fact is we ALL love our machinery on this site and all the quirks that come with them. Thank you for your technical contributions as I'm sure they've been helpful to some. But we all need to knock it off with attacking and belittling others for their woes. We come here to find solutions to problems and accurate information.

TL;DR. Stop being jerks to people online.

basilic
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by basilic

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:15 am
Ride your rim-brake bike to your heart's content. You don't have to convince anyone else that discs are bad to enjoy your own bike.
Surely you can see that this applies to all sides of the debate, or of any debate.
I don't think that people who report good or bad experiences with a component, a brand, a setup, etc, do it to "convince" anyone. Sharing of info is the main reason this site exists, and why I or others come to read it. To shut people up, through derision or harassment or indeed thread closures just takes that value away.

tomato
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by tomato

I've got $10 that says this thread will get locked ...

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Dov
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by Dov

What is at the root of the antagonism on this issue. Genuinely do not get it.
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tomato
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by tomato

Dov wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:06 pm
What is at the root of the antagonism on this issue.
Testosterone.

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Kayrehn
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by Kayrehn

On a slightly different note, there was this guy who posted about d*****rider as his role model and wondered how he got his lovely vixens and that got 2 threads shut down I think. I thought giving him a vacation was a more appropriate action...

What if we just let certain topics be safe spaces for opposing parties to sling all the mud they want at each other? Very quickly those who think meaningful discussion have lone ended will just avoid the topic, while the rest can slug it out in the blood fest. Like in the real world, people online do sometimes join in debates just to have a chance to give a contrary opinion. Not saying zero moderation something I would recommend (haven't really thought this through myself) but it'll perhaps take a load off moderators, and teach forum users to be more discerning in their participation.

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

There’s also a lot of paranoia on one side. In another topic in the training forum, one poster was convinced a bunch of us were in some super secret Zwift racer chat in collaboration against him. There are constant accusations in these threads of members whining to the moderators. If you believe this, name names. Who do you think is running to the mods to get these threads locked? Me?

Again, why is it that forum members happy with disc brakes don’t feel the need to create threads to disparage rim brakes? Why is this behavior unidirectional? That’s what I personally find fascinating.

Let's go deeper with this comparison:

Some are complaining about these once great forums ~ "Make Weight Weenies Great Again"
One side is creating false bogeymen (scary disc brakes) to instill fear.
Bullies (constantly making new threads) are claiming to be the victims.
These people rely on moderation/policing the most, but are also quick to turn their backs and villainize those same mods if no favoritism is shown.
The same old characterizations are being thrown around. Sheep = sheep. Dentists = cultural/coastal elite.

This is sociopolitical to the core and creating a dustbin thread doesn't fix the issue. It only provides an official outlet for those people to rile themselves up.

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neeb
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by neeb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:24 pm
Again, why is it that forum members happy with disc brakes don’t feel the need to create threads to disparage rim brakes? Why is this behavior unidirectional? That’s what I personally find fascinating.
Because when you look at the way bikes are marketed now and 99% of the cycling media (I mean the big-scale stuff, not comments in forums), the "disc brakes are superior" agenda is now almost universal and unchallenged (let's not get into how that has come about). Obviously this isn't serious stuff in the bigger scheme of things, but it's analagous to any situation where you have a minority demographic existing in a wider culture where the biases of the majority are assumed by default.

Furthermore, because of the dominance of the majority viewpoint, any statement of the minority agenda is viewed as "extreme" or "disparaging", when in fact it's just exercising its right to exist. And it attracts aggressive responses because of the cognitive dissonance that creates (especially when it's obviously rational and non-extreme.

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neeb
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by neeb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:24 pm
This is sociopolitical to the core
I agree, but I think you've got it completely topsy-turvy in your comparisons above.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

neeb wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:26 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:24 pm
This is sociopolitical to the core
I agree, but I think you've got it completely topsy-turvy in your comparisons above.

Have I got it backward or is this just more “I know you are but what am I” bunk? Who is calling for real censorship in the form of bans? Who is dissatisfied with the moderators? Which group constantly frames the other as sheep, noobs, dentists, etc?

I’ve never called anyone a sheep here. I’ve never asked for anyone to be banned. I think the moderators have been more than fair in dealing with this nonsense.

I am also aware of my privileged position as a disc-brake bike owner. I ask that you become aware of the tactics employed the never-disc crowd. When someone specifically names me as a supposed bad actor in these threads, I’m going to take it personally. Just be aware that in almost 9000 shitposts, the only discipline I’ve gotten is a single warning/infraction after multiple complaints to mods who certainly don’t like me as much as you think they do.

Also my profile photo isn’t disc brakepads.

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neeb
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by neeb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 pm
Who is calling for real censorship in the form of bans? Who is dissatisfied with the moderators? Which group constantly frames the other as sheep, noobs, dentists, etc?
Not me, on all counts. I think you need to stop seeing "groups" where there aren't any.
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 pm
I’ve never called anyone a sheep here. I’ve never asked for anyone to be banned.
Me neither.
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 pm
I think the moderators have been more than fair in dealing with this nonsense.
I agree, but we doubtless see nonsense in different places.
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 pm
I am also aware of my privileged position as a disc-brake bike owner.
I'll take that as meaning privileged, in the sense of sharing the current industry-preferred, cycling-media sanctioned viewpoint.
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 pm
Also my profile photo isn’t disc brakepads.
Maybe it would be if you didn't have said privileged position and felt strongly enough about it. Besides, they are Campy ones and quite pretty.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I’ve been repeatedly named publicly by others, you haven’t ;)

Either way there’s a pattern of behavior with the typical undertones. There’s always a center and if you aren’t truly neutral, then you lean left or right. Since most of the turmoil in revolves around rim/disc, I’ll keep using that example. I don’t see disc support as being fueled by zealotry, but mostly pragmatism. The rim-brake side believes it has been backed into a corner by various forces and yep, that leads paranoia, feelings of abandonment, conspiracy theories, etc.

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neeb
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by neeb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:13 am
I’ve been repeatedly named publicly by others, you haven’t ;)

Either way there’s a pattern of behavior with the typical undertones. There’s always a center and if you aren’t truly neutral, then you lean left or right. Since most of the turmoil in revolves around rim/disc, I’ll keep using that example. I don’t see disc support as being fueled by zealotry, but mostly pragmatism. The rim-brake side believes it has been backed into a corner by various forces and yep, that leads paranoia, feelings of abandonment, conspiracy theories, etc.
You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you.. :wink:

Seriously though, this is just normal stuff where you have a "minority" arguing for its interests within a culture dominated by a "majority" viewpoint (I put these words in quotes because with rim/disc it's a slightly odd situation where the minority/majority balance is different on somewhere like WW compared to the situation in cycling media / marketing in general). You can't extend any sociopolitical angle further than that. The minority is always going to have to make its point more stridently because the majority viewpoint is assumed by default, and of course is more likely to see itself as "backed into a corner" or having a "mission". This doesn't say anything about the advatages or rim vs. disc or about any inherent qualities of the people who have one view or the other, just about the social dynamics of minority and "mainstream" viewpoints.

I think your thinly veiled analogy with U.S. politics doesn't work at all, because (at least from this side of the pond) it seems that Trumpism is largely defined by a rejection of reason and pragmatism in favour of an ideology based on emotional needs and aspirations, while the argument for rim brakes over disc brakes is entirely rational. Of course I expect you to disagree with that, but there's no point getting into that again here.

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