Carbon gravel wheels for a heavy rider

[Mr.Gib]

I'm in the stiffer spokes make the stiffer wheel camp. Go ride any 24 spoke CX ray wheel and then try a Campagnolo Shamal Ultra (16F, 21R) on the same bike. You will think you are on a different bike - the difference is that dramatic. Though much fewer in number the spokes on the Shamals are as stiff as tree trunks. Further this "stiff spokes make a stiff wheel" thinking is very much in line with peoples findings with carbon spoked wheels.

And yes deep wheels improve bracing angles, but if you want a shallower rim, maybe think about stiffer spokes. I just ordered a 24 spoke 40m deep wheelset built entirely with Sapim CX Sprint - putting my money where my mouth is.

[robertbb]

Does anyone have any thoughts on going with a wider, XC style rim? On my 1st gen Canyon Grail, I currently run 45mm front and 40mm back, but would like to go to 47/42. It seems a little odd to have a 25 ID rim for a 47mm tyre.

Don’t go wider than 25mm internal. For gravel tires you want a light bulb shape. It gives you a suspension effect that will give you a better ride, fewer flats, and more predictable cornering. You lose the vertical tire sidewall by going with too wide of a rim. The vertical sidewall has a host of benefits as mentioned earlier. You get fewer flats because the vertical sidewall isn’t exposed to road hazards like rocks.


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Wait, what? First you said you want light bulb shape then said you lose the vertical sidewall if ID of rim is too wide.

Light bulb shape means non vertical sidewall, yeah

[Mr.Gib]

Does anyone have any thoughts on going with a wider, XC style rim? On my 1st gen Canyon Grail, I currently run 45mm front and 40mm back, but would like to go to 47/42. It seems a little odd to have a 25 ID rim for a 47mm tyre.

Don’t go wider than 25mm internal. For gravel tires you want a light bulb shape. It gives you a suspension effect that will give you a better ride, fewer flats, and more predictable cornering. You lose the vertical tire sidewall by going with too wide of a rim. The vertical sidewall has a host of benefits as mentioned earlier. You get fewer flats because the vertical sidewall isn’t exposed to road hazards like rocks.


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Wait, what? First you said you want light bulb shape then said you lose the vertical sidewall if ID of rim is too wide.

Light bulb shape means non vertical sidewall, yeah

This confused me also. Regardless, I am not convinced that super wide rims are better for gravel. Aero benefits are not possible with any decent sized tire, and I if you spread a tire out too much you can end up with the side knobs contacting the ground when they shouldn't, particularely if you are running low pressures. Loving the handling of my 44mm Thundero's on 21mm internal. I have a 25mm internal wheelset ready to go but I am not switching. Lachlan Morton's Unbound win on 21mm internal wheels prompted me to give "skinny" wheels a try.

[Agent041]

Does anyone have any thoughts on going with a wider, XC style rim? On my 1st gen Canyon Grail, I currently run 45mm front and 40mm back, but would like to go to 47/42. It seems a little odd to have a 25 ID rim for a 47mm tyre.

Don’t go wider than 25mm internal. For gravel tires you want a light bulb shape. It gives you a suspension effect that will give you a better ride, fewer flats, and more predictable cornering. You lose the vertical tire sidewall by going with too wide of a rim. The vertical sidewall has a host of benefits as mentioned earlier. You get fewer flats because the vertical sidewall isn’t exposed to road hazards like rocks.


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Wait, what? First you said you want light bulb shape then said you lose the vertical sidewall if ID of rim is too wide.

Light bulb shape means non vertical sidewall, yeah

I was confused as well. But as am not expert in this matter, I did not comment.
And If you have light bulb shape, I think is more risky for sidewall punctures. It naturally depends where you ride. But in general, in corners sidewall is even more expossed for potential sharp rocks.

[Mr.Gib]

It's tire dependent of course, but if you are worried about damage to the sideswall, note that the more you spread open a tire on a wide rim, the more you expose the sidewall to the ground. But with tires over 40mm I don't think this is a genuine issue. No experience with 30mm internal rims, so perhaps if you go with relatively smaller tires it could be an issue, but I'd consider that just a bad choice of equipment.

[pdlpsher1]

What Mr. Gib said regarding exposing the sidewalls to hazards on a wide rim. With a lightbulb shape the sidewalls are tucked and protected under a tire's tread. I used the term 'vertical sidewall' because when you put a narrow tire on a wide rim, the tire carcass shape becomes more of a half circle with non-vertical sidewalls.

[robertbb]

What Mr. Gib said regarding exposing the sidewalls to hazards on a wide rim. With a lightbulb shape the sidewalls are tucked and protected under a tire's tread. I used the term 'vertical sidewall' because when you put a narrow tire on a wide rim, the tire carcass shape becomes more of a half circle with non-vertical sidewalls.

False. The narrow tire on a wide rim has the opposite effect on sidewalls - it makes them more vertical. That's why your earlier post made no sense and I comment on that (no offense intended).

I'm with Mr Gib. Super wide internal rims for gravel - not convinced. MTB has offered a lot to drop bar bikes and riding..... "gravel" being the latest hybridisation..... and they've been running MUCH wider tyres (proportionally) on smaller ID rims for years and years.

~21mm ID rims for gravel offer a few benefits:
1) As was said, the outer tread (usually a knob of some sort) doesn't make contact with the ground in straight line, because it's pulled/pinched downwards and slightly inboard.
2) This improves BOTH grip and rolling resistance in circumstances where the bike isn't leaning
3) This ensures the knobs make contact when the bike is leaning heavily or is in deep gravel
4) This protects the rim from damage by way of the knobs absorbing strikes
5) protects the sidewall from being exposed to damage because it's angled back towards the rim rather than being vertical

Of course this is at the expense of "aero" but one must ask: how aero is a 40+mm knobby tyre in the first instance? I mean really.

[pdlpsher1]

Lol. All of my rim/tire setups have a light bulb shape. You, Mr. Gib and I are the minority on WW. I think wide rims have been overblown. That's why I told the OP to NOT go wider than 25mm ID. He was asking about XC rims that are 30mm ID.

[Mr.Gib]

Depends on the specific circumstances. 30mm internal seems perfectly reasonable with 50mm + tires. No doubt there is terrain and surface conditions that would make such a set up optimal. But for most of the gravel riding I see, I can help but wonder about the unintended handling and performance effects on 35 - 45mm tires on rims for which they were not designed. IMO 25mm internal seems like a good number. I might be a bit of an outlier with my preference for 21mm with my current tire choice. For the road, I am all in on wide rims.

[JoninSweden]

Any thoughts on these? I stumbled across the manufacturer and like the fact that they are European made.

Seems like fantastic value with the DT Swiss 350 hubs. Sub 1400g, 130kg system weight rating. Less than 700 euros:

https://www.carl-z.de/produkt/z36/

[pdlpsher1]

Very good value. I would definitely recommend the AeroComp to the AeroLite spokes (80g penalty but hugely stiffer/stronger).

[JoninSweden]

Very good value. I would definitely recommend the AeroComp to the AeroLite spokes (80g penalty but hugely stiffer/stronger).

Thank you. I will definitely do that.

I've emailed them to see if they'd like to use me as a wheel tester/promoter here in Sweden. Either way, it's exciting to find a manufacturer in Germany. I'm half German myself, and one of my goals, working with the local councils, is to bring more German cycle tourists here.

A photo from yesterday's ride, for no particularly good reason

[Uberflo]

Any thoughts on these? I stumbled across the manufacturer and like the fact that they are European made.

Seems like fantastic value with the DT Swiss 350 hubs. Sub 1400g, 130kg system weight rating. Less than 700 euros:

https://www.carl-z.de/produkt/z36/

Dont expect too much when you have any issues with the wheels. Aftersales is very bad according to various Customers.

[JoninSweden]

Dont expect too much when you have any issues with the wheels. Aftersales is very bad according to various Customers.

That is frustrating. Customer service should be easy for a European based company serving European customers.

[TLN]

Finally a topic I can contribute

194cm and 100+ kilos rider. 35yo (today, actually).

Running multiple wheelsets:
Road: Terra CLX (1st version): 25mm internal, 32 external, 30C tires is perfect, currently running 32c, that bulge a bit. Hooked rim, dt--180 hubs, very happy about it.
Fast gravel: Duke Lucky Jack SLS4: 26mm internal, 28mm external. Currently with Challenge 36c tires, but I tried GP5000 in 32. Rim is hookless, so I'd rather stick with wider tire and lower pressure (low-40s). I've tried same rim with 40C gravel tire and that would be my choice for something fast. Surprisingly, not alot of difference going from 25mm internal to 28/26 when running same tires.
Experimental fun setup: light bike XC wheels, 30mm internal. Curently set up with IRC Boken in 40c, and measures ~45mm. 28 spokes (rest is 24 I believe). Currently on Grizl Suspension, so almost-mountain bike. I tried Pirelli Cinturato H in 50c: very comfortable and Spesh Fast trak in 2.2
Comfort-wise, I feel that XC-set up is way stiffer, but that's compensated with bigger tires (suspension fork and seatpost). On the other hand I know that I can ride careless on that wheelset: it's overbuild for gravel, plus I got it very cheap.

I haven't covered all combinations of tires/bikes, but for pure gravel, I'd go with 30c internal and stick with 40c-50c tires easily.
For road (~28-32c slicks) for 200lbs (90kg)+ 25mm internal is way to go. Going from 25c to 28c with 30c (or 32c) tires is barely noticeable. Tire pressure is far more important: sometimes you got it very right and it's very noticeable.

I'm very interested in setup described in "wide rim" topic, aka Nextie rims (29mm internal, hooked) with 30-32c slicks: sure it breaks all the rules but I feel that will be very comfy and fast for heavy riders on the road or gravel.