CX racing tubeless tire choice

[Alexandre]

Hi cyclo cross enthousiasts,
I do cyclo cross racing during my winter preparation and I'm looking for a versatile tires setup for mostly the same conditions every weekends.
Meaing a mix of : wet/dry grass, wet dirt, sitcky mud and some gravel ssections. The races rarely have deep and "liquid/fluid" mud, long uphill or sand pit.
I'm considering a Challenge Baby Limus TLR at the front for more confidence in the close and slippery corners and a Challenge Grifo TLR at the rear mounted with the arrows pointing backward for a good balance between rolling resistance and traction.
Regarding my races conditions, do you guys have any toughts about my choice or diferent suggestions for a better setup ?

[dsveddy]

Do you race UCI/races that demand 33mm? If not I really reccomend racing 35-38mm. I am increasingly convinced the 33mm really works best on a tubular platform. If you're going tubeless you should get a tire with a larger effective width. If you're not bound to 33mm then I would also start considering gravel tires in your lineup.

Anyways, here's my report for a fall season of CX racing in New England:

I went through a "tire-crisis" this year and settled on Panaracer EXT 38mm. Probably a bit extreme for most conditions but the RR is reasonable. The biggest draw for me is that they were inexpensive in the US, something like $40USD a pop on Amazon. Really shines in the corners, but you can feel the lugs dig in on the straights. If I could have designed the tire I probably would have gone for something with lower center tread. Panaracer's casing scores well in RR and wet-grip tests on bicyclerollingresistance's review. All-around I'm happy though, these tires are staying in my quiver for sure.

I've seen several people on Challenge Grifo and Baby Limus TLR 38mm. Guy I'm friends with who won my local collegiate CX season did it on Challenge Grifo TLR 38, the non-handmade version. Goes to prove you don't need the fanciest casings to be fast. I've heard rave reviews over the Grifo 38mm HMTLR version online though, they're just hard to track down.

8 years ago, Donnelley MXP, PDX, and LAS were the answer. They said "33mm" on the side but plumped up to 35mm on a 21mm-internal-rim-width. Saw a couple riders on PDX this season.

Other gravel tires I've been interested in:

If they weren't so expensive in the US, I'd probably go for Tufo Swampero in a 36 or 40mm. Decenty open tread pattern, fast-running center-tread, and top-scores on bicyclerollingresistance.

Another gravel tire I considered is the Challenge Getaway HMTLR in 36 or 40mm. Again, cost was my primary reservation, but also the shoulder tread depth wasn't quite what I wanted, and I've read several negative reviews over the cornering predictablility. I think if you want a fast file-tread for dry and hard conditions this might be the one though.

I spoke with a bike-shop owner at a cross race this fall and he has himself and his son on Schwalbe G1-Bite 40mm. He remarked that at these large volumes, deep tread is no longer necessary.

A similar gravel tire to the Challenge getaway, which is perhaps better suited to CX, is the Donnelley X'PLOR MSO. These have the deeper shoulder treads from the PDX, and (allegedly) the soft rubber compound Donnelley CX tires are known for. It's also availibile in a WC guise, with casing made by Tufo. My only complaint is these are hard to get a hold of. These are top my my list to buy next.

What about the people on 33mm? At the bike races, I'm seeing many people on Challenge Grifo and Baby Limus, still. Many red-walled team-edition tires. Talked to a guy on the new michelin mud, says they aren't very good in the mud, but I guess he likes them enough to keep racing them.

Wishing you the best of luck on your search, and cheers!

[CampagYOLO]

Good post from dsveddy and I'd certainly echo his thoughts on going wider if not racing UCI events.

I'm using 38mm Vittoria Terreno Wets right now as the UK has had tons of rain and the courses now resemble quagmires.
The grip is absolutely fantastic in the slop, better than anything else I've used. On the whole I'm happy with them.
No denying, they're slow on any hard surfaces so would be interested in the Swamperos for next winter which appear to have a lot less rolling resistance.

If the Swamperos live up to the findings on BRR and also have good grip in the mud they could basically be as close as possible to fit and forget CX tyres.

[erik$]

For 33mm requirements I have been very happy with the Donnelly PDX wc (240tpi version) and they measure 32-32.5 on 21 hooked and 22 hookless rims. They might have stretched a bit more now, but should stay within regulations.
I also measured a Schwalbe X-one RS (the new transparent verSion) at 32 mm on 22 hookless, just after installation. The X one R version could be an interesting intermediate thread option and I expect it will measure similarly in terms of width.

All measurements at pressures around 22-25 psi.

[Thatsbullshark]

Great advice from dsveddy. I've been racing the Challenge Grifo Pro TLR in 38mm this year in New England CX. Absolutely love this tire. I run it from 22 to 28 psi depending on how rooty the course is.

[Alexandre]

Do you race UCI/races that demand 33mm? If not I really reccomend racing 35-38mm. I am increasingly convinced the 33mm really works best on a tubular platform. If you're going tubeless you should get a tire with a larger effective width. If you're not bound to 33mm then I would also start considering gravel tires in your lineup.

Anyways, here's my report for a fall season of CX racing in New England:

I went through a "tire-crisis" this year and settled on Panaracer EXT 38mm. Probably a bit extreme for most conditions but the RR is reasonable. The biggest draw for me is that they were inexpensive in the US, something like $40USD a pop on Amazon. Really shines in the corners, but you can feel the lugs dig in on the straights. If I could have designed the tire I probably would have gone for something with lower center tread. Panaracer's casing scores well in RR and wet-grip tests on bicyclerollingresistance's review. All-around I'm happy though, these tires are staying in my quiver for sure.

I've seen several people on Challenge Grifo and Baby Limus TLR 38mm. Guy I'm friends with who won my local collegiate CX season did it on Challenge Grifo TLR 38, the non-handmade version. Goes to prove you don't need the fanciest casings to be fast. I've heard rave reviews over the Grifo 38mm HMTLR version online though, they're just hard to track down.

8 years ago, Donnelley MXP, PDX, and LAS were the answer. They said "33mm" on the side but plumped up to 35mm on a 21mm-internal-rim-width. Saw a couple riders on PDX this season.

Other gravel tires I've been interested in:

If they weren't so expensive in the US, I'd probably go for Tufo Swampero in a 36 or 40mm. Decenty open tread pattern, fast-running center-tread, and top-scores on bicyclerollingresistance.

Another gravel tire I considered is the Challenge Getaway HMTLR in 36 or 40mm. Again, cost was my primary reservation, but also the shoulder tread depth wasn't quite what I wanted, and I've read several negative reviews over the cornering predictablility. I think if you want a fast file-tread for dry and hard conditions this might be the one though.

I spoke with a bike-shop owner at a cross race this fall and he has himself and his son on Schwalbe G1-Bite 40mm. He remarked that at these large volumes, deep tread is no longer necessary.

A similar gravel tire to the Challenge getaway, which is perhaps better suited to CX, is the Donnelley X'PLOR MSO. These have the deeper shoulder treads from the PDX, and (allegedly) the soft rubber compound Donnelley CX tires are known for. It's also availibile in a WC guise, with casing made by Tufo. My only complaint is these are hard to get a hold of. These are top my my list to buy next.

What about the people on 33mm? At the bike races, I'm seeing many people on Challenge Grifo and Baby Limus, still. Many red-walled team-edition tires. Talked to a guy on the new michelin mud, says they aren't very good in the mud, but I guess he likes them enough to keep racing them.

Wishing you the best of luck on your search, and cheers!

Thank you very much to have shared your experience !

I'm not blocked with the UCI 33mm rule, that's why I'm interrested by the Grifo H-TLR 38 which can be found for 69 euros from France. However, I would be even more interrested by a potential Baby Limus H-TLR 38 but it still havent been released yet. The 38 version of the Limus is too mud oriented and has a lot of rolling resistance, it can be nice on the front in some cases if I could at least find itt somewhere. I know the Grifo is a very appreciated tread but my races are too wet and I'm not confident enough (may be not skilled enough) to pick that one. That said, you can imagine that I have to stay away from the Getaway according the users reviews.

Wishing you a successful CX season !

[Alexandre]

Good post from dsveddy and I'd certainly echo his thoughts on going wider if not racing UCI events.

I'm using 38mm Vittoria Terreno Wets right now as the UK has had tons of rain and the courses now resemble quagmires.
The grip is absolutely fantastic in the slop, better than anything else I've used. On the whole I'm happy with them.
No denying, they're slow on any hard surfaces so would be interested in the Swamperos for next winter which appear to have a lot less rolling resistance.

If the Swamperos live up to the findings on BRR and also have good grip in the mud they could basically be as close as possible to fit and forget CX tyres.

It'll great to have some feedback from riders on Swamperos racing CX

[Alexandre]

Great advice from dsveddy. I've been racing the Challenge Grifo Pro TLR in 38mm this year in New England CX. Absolutely love this tire. I run it from 22 to 28 psi depending on how rooty the course is.

Do you race on Grifo tread the whole season on any kind of course ? And would you do that with the 33 or only with 38 ?

[Thatsbullshark]

Great advice from dsveddy. I've been racing the Challenge Grifo Pro TLR in 38mm this year in New England CX. Absolutely love this tire. I run it from 22 to 28 psi depending on how rooty the course is.

Do you race on Grifo tread the whole season on any kind of course ? And would you do that with the 33 or only with 38 ?

This season has been very dry, just a few stretches of mud, so I've used the 38 Grifo all season. I think I would only have done that with the 38. It just gives me so much more contact area / confidence as well as extra cushion for rooty courses. I do bring a set of tubular wheels with Limus 33s in case of mud. Before the Grifo 38s I used to race with Baby Limus 33 tubulars.

Only downside to the Challenge tires is mounting them. But once on they been rock solid!

[charirider]

For dry Conti Terra Speed. Is TL, could measure 33-35mm depending on rim width, fastest gravel/mixed cx tire out there.
For mud, Baby Limus.

[Prusoli]

Cross is comming, Time to set up my CX bike, Please help me make a choice :
I'm doing CX races at low amateur level.
Last year I used to ride Baby Limus TLR vulcanized 33mm the whole saison ( on carbon gravel wheels, 23 internal hooked, tires mesured à 35mm, but no podium / no issue)
The beginning on the season is generaly not so muddy here in France : mostly dry, or wet grass, and parcours have quite a lot of offcamber and up and down)"
I consider mounting some 33mm grifo instead of the baby limus. saving the baby limus I own for winter.
Do you think it is worst the investment ? Grifo and baby limus aren't too similar ?
Does any of you has tested both ?
Furthemore, do you thing the "hand made tubeless" worth it at my level ? I'm afraid of the lower air volume and the risk of bottom my rim at low pressure, (and Idoesn't like the tan bed look)
Thanks for your advices

[soulxpower]

I've used Grifo, Baby limus and limus tubeless and all vulcanised, I think Challenge calls them the Comp line.

My experience is that the thread of the Baby Limus wears waaay faster than the other Challenge Comp tires I used. Especially the middle part of the thread showed significant wear after 3 races. But this is just my experience, a friend raced the entire season on baby limus handmades without any issue.

The courses I ride in The Netherlands tend to become really muddy and sticky so I have a set of Grifo's and Limus for this season.

About the handmade tubeless: I just ordered a set of handmade Grifo TLR because I somehow ruined a set of vulcanised grifo's at practise the other week (long story short: hard impact on the side wall which caused the tire to wobble although my rim is still dead straight).
I know this won't help you out right now, but I can let you know if I can tell any difference after I raced with them.

[Prusoli]

thanks,
I'll be pleased to read your review on the hand made one's !

[soulxpower]

thanks,
I'll be pleased to read your review on the hand made one's !

I finally came around to race on them last weekend and the weekend before.

To summarise: I feel more confident to run the handmade ones at a lower pressure than the vulcanised ones. The more flexible sidewalls prevent the tires to feel squirmy at low pressures and in hard corners, especially in corners that transition from dirt to a paved surface.

About a possible issue with burping: I rode the handmade Grifo's at 1,7 bar at the front and 1,8 bar at the back (the course was still quite hardpacked and not to slippery) and I never felt like the tire was about to pop off. I ran these tires on a set of DT Swiss cr 1400's that have an internal width of 22mm.

[Prusoli]

thanks !