Gravel cassette and Ratio Technology

[DoctorWeir]

Greetings,

I ran into a plethora of issues during my new gravel build. In short I'm running the following components:
Yoeleo G2 Frameset
Force 1 Shifters and brakes
Force 1 one rear derailleur with Garbaruk Pulley and Cage
Sram Red crankset with Alugear chainring 42t
Wipperman Connex 11s chain
Zipp 303s XDR
Garbaruk 10-46 XD cassette

My first issue is with the driver of the cassette. XDR calls for 1.85mm spacer, which fitted and torqued to 40nm would result in chain rubbing the frame in the largest cog. I have it installed without and there is some noticable wobble, but this way the cassette fits and doesn't touch the spokes nor the frame. I haven't rulled out cross threading yet, it's likely that could very well be the cause. Secondly, I have been having an absolutely horrid time trying to get the damn thing to shift properly. 3 new cables pulled through, housings all new, chain will skip between second to largest and largest cog, and skip under load when in lowest cog. The gravel race season has already started, and I'm starting to run thin patience on this project.

My thought process is as follows:
1. get an XDR specific cassette (Sram XPLR Rival or Force are the only available ones to my knowledge)
2. get 12 speed upgrade ratchet from Ratiotechnology
3. get 12 speed chain (Flattop?) Sram claims XPLR cassettes only work with flattop chains. I know the chainring is compatible and the Garbaruk pulleys are the same as on AXS upgrade kits. In theory this should work?
4. Throw everything in the garbage bin

I've though about many alternatives, including running an XTR cassette and chain, but no one makes Microspline freehub gravel wheelsets. I don't wish to tempt luck with XD driver again, as the frame already took a nice scratch on the dropout so I'm rulling out Garbaruk and Eagle cassettes. I know this is a cluster of information but I sincerely hope, someone can point me in the right direction. I feel that XPLR would be the cheapest, simplest solution and retain the current gear range without the need to alter my freehub standard and or wheelset. Total cost of this is something shy of 300€. Much less if I can sucessfully refund the garbaruk cassette, which even though looks and feels like a work of art, I simply can not continue using.

Included is a picture of the bike, I think it looks dope, especially considering the cost/weight. So problems asside, I'm genuinely happy with how it came out, and hope I can find closure for this build in the next few weeks.

[img][https://imgur.com/a/PsdH8BW]

[youngs_modulus]

Edit: I see that I commented on a duplicate thread--there's another one where people are addressing. Your questions.

If you create a duplicate, it's good form to replace your post with "NM"' or otherwise make it clear that the dupe is dead.

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It is really unclear to me what the problem is, so it's hard to recommend a solution.

When you say the cassette wobbles, do you mean it precesses like a spinning top right before it falls over? Or do you mean that without the spacer your cassette is loose on the free hub body?

Is your chain skipping teeth, ghost-shifting between gears or making noise like it "wants" to go to the next cog? If it's either of the latter two, which way does it "want" to go? Is the direction the same at both ends of the cassette?

If you suspect you've cross-threaded the cassette onto the freehub, as you say, why haven't you removed the cassette and checked the threads on the freehub? That seems like the obvious first step.

I don't see how buying a bunch of expensive 12-speed parts and then throwing them away will help your 11-speed bike shift better. I'm being a little silly, but it's hard to tell what exactly you're proposing.

Are you saying you want to dump what you've got and try again with a 12-speed drivetrain? If anything, 11-speed mechanical shifting is easier to get right than 12-speed, so I'd avoid that if I were in your shoes.

Why do you think the cassette itself is the problem? Why not test it by borrowing an 11-speed SRAM XD (say, a 10-42 or 10-46) cassette and putting it on your wheel?

You could even more easily find a friend's 11-speed road wheel (regardless of who makes the cassette) and see how the shifting is with that?

Finally, you could get a Shimano HG cassette body for your 303s and use any Shimano 11-speed cassette.

And yeah, there are real compatibility issues with flattop chains (the non-standard roller diameter) so I'd only use a cassette explicitly designed for that roller diameter regardless of who makes it.

You sound pretty frustrated, and you've got my sympathy.

[rjich]

Such a thoughtful response above. I also had some trouble when i set up my bike and groupset. It was eventually a mishmash of Easton EC90 Chainset with a 40T chainring, 11-40 XTR Cassette, Sram Rival 1x levers, rear mech and a KMC chain.
I got it to a point now where it feels crisp and efficient. But to get there i had to go though the process of starting with the baseline stuff, be it the Rival crank it shipped with or the stock cassette, then change things a piece at a time to iron out any compounding issues. That introduced fun challenges like bottom bracket changes, spacers in bb cups, chainrings etc until i figured out where i was confusing myself. Of course it requires you to gain access to the kit if you don't already own which could be a challenge or further expense.
I read a few negative reviews of the Garbaruk cassettes so i didn't stray to the XDR hub as i didn't need the 10t cog. But perhaps a standard sram cage and cassette may help a lot. Wipperman chains too can be picky. I use the Connex link but on a KMC 11sp chain.

[manystyles]

I also realized you had another thread too.

I’m assuming you’d rather be riding then having to diagnose and fix this issue. I really suggest you take it to a reputable LBS.

At this pt it would have been cheaper if you let one initially address these issues.

FYI, I had pieces together my build for my gravel bike and initially wanted a Garb 9-XX cassette but was told the SRAM 10-52 would shift smoother by my builder’s mech. I’m running a 11sp SRAM drivetrain retrofitted with Ratio stuff too. It’s 95%, as it is sensitive to cable routing and tension, so the shifting on one gear is a little slow.

My pt is, lean on professionals who do this for advice.


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[DoctorWeir]

UPDATE 3:
Frustrations aside I found a solution. After contacting Garbaruk and Yoeleo I ran out of ideas and figured I'd brute force this cassette to fit. The Ctrl+Alt+Delete kind of brute force. I took it off, cleaned everything, put the 1.85mm spacer in place and then put every ounce of power into the wrench when mounting it. Mounted in the frame there's maybe half a milimeter of space between the chain outerplate and the dropout. A risk I'm not taking should the chain get sucked into the frame in some final destination scene.

I let a few sighs into the aether and glanced at my Canyon Exceed sitting in the Garage, mounted with cheap NX shifter, chain and derailleur to a ZTTO 9-50 chinese masterclass of cassette cheapness to weight ratio and that damn thing just works. Ugly under power shifts, everything you throw at it. And then it hit me: The CHAIN! There's a distinct difference in the width of an 11s chain and a 12s chain. I just took the NX chain from the Canyon to Yoeleo, no shortening, measuring. Just as a joke. And to my shock, it shifts up, it shifts down and there's very little for me to complain in terms of shift precision.

So all it took was a quick drive to the store, X01 Eagle chain, clean, wax and on it goes. Problem solved.

Regarding the 11s to 12s upgrade being a waste of money however.. : I built the bike specifically as a sistem upgradable to 12speed. It's inspired among other things by Dangerholm's Scott Gravel build. I still purchased the 12s ratchet for eagle cassettes. Allowing expansion to the 9-50 range I have on my MTB. But I might not put it on this bike. Nothing wrong with a cheap Apex build for allround durability but with a little added funcionality

[manystyles]

Now go ride! You are one patient person.


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