My findings on SRAM AXS XPLR WIDE as 2X drivetrain with 10-36,10-33 cassettes

The spirit of Grav-lo-cross. No but seriously, cyclocross and gravel go here!

Moderator: Moderator Team

DaveS
Posts: 3941
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

satanas wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:42 am
Interesting! That cage might help with gravel/touring gearing too. I wonder why they say the XPLR RDs won't work as I thought the only significant differences were the length of the mounting knuckle, the cage geometry, and (maybe) the parallelogram angle. I'd prefer to avoid using a Roadlink if possible as I got really crappy shifting across the whole cassette when I had one with Shimano 11 speed. Presumably one could just use the GRX rings (or TA 44x28) with the normal GRX chainline and use a SRAM Wide FD for more tyre clearance. I'd probably use an Ingrid 11-44 cassette rather than SRAM as the middle gears are much better spaced (for me anyway).
The road link has worked great on my 3 road bikes to allow the use of a 10-44 cassette with 33 or 36t capacity RDs, along with 46/30 cranks. With the stock RD cage, the chain length is set for the big ring and 38t sprocket, with sequential mode to avoid the big/big. I tried the Specialties TA 44/28 rings and found them to shift poorly. A total waste of time and money.

The xplr RD obviously sits low enough, but doesn't require over a 34t wrap capacity. There's always another 2-3t available for chain length differences. The 2x RDs have 70mm long cages and can wrap about 42t. It's cage length that determines wrap capacity.

The normal grx chain line would work with the wide FD.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



RDY
Posts: 2587
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

DaveS wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:01 pm
satanas wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:42 am
Interesting! That cage might help with gravel/touring gearing too. I wonder why they say the XPLR RDs won't work as I thought the only significant differences were the length of the mounting knuckle, the cage geometry, and (maybe) the parallelogram angle. I'd prefer to avoid using a Roadlink if possible as I got really crappy shifting across the whole cassette when I had one with Shimano 11 speed. Presumably one could just use the GRX rings (or TA 44x28) with the normal GRX chainline and use a SRAM Wide FD for more tyre clearance. I'd probably use an Ingrid 11-44 cassette rather than SRAM as the middle gears are much better spaced (for me anyway).
The road link has worked great on my 3 road bikes to allow the use of a 10-44 cassette with 33 or 36t capacity RDs, along with 46/30 cranks. With the stock RD cage, the chain length is set for the big ring and 38t sprocket, with sequential mode to avoid the big/big. I tried the Specialties TA 44/28 rings and found them to shift poorly. A total waste of time and money.

The xplr RD obviously sits low enough, but doesn't require over a 34t wrap capacity. There's always another 2-3t available for chain length differences. The 2x RDs have 70mm long cages and can wrap about 42t. It's cage length that determines wrap capacity.

The normal grx chain line would work with the wide FD.
I assume this should work better, if anything with 50/34 on the front and 10-44 in the rear, since the bigger rings should give a slightly better chain line?

DaveS
Posts: 3941
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

@RDY. A 50/34 should work fine, if you really use a 50/10 top gear. Just add 1 inch of chain length for another 4 teeth. Chain length seems to be a problem for some users. There's an easy formula that works for standard cages. Oversized pulleys might require a bit more length, so if in doubt, start with an extra inch. I try to never use the small ring with sprockets smaller than 13. SRAM sequential mode prohibits the use of the 10-15 sprockets on a 10-44.

I have a 14t lower pulley on my extended range cages, but the formula still works, probably because it calculates a 56.16 inch length, so 57 is used. There's lots of extra.

RDY
Posts: 2587
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

It's not about having a 50 10, or even 11. It's about less time spent in small cogs. Hence not wanting to go 46 30 or 43 30.

Thanks for the info.

DaveS
Posts: 3941
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

A 50 is only 9% larger, so you'd use the 11 instead of the 10 and probably never use the 10, making the bike an 11 speed. The next step is a 50/13 which is the same as a 46/12, but there's no 12 on a 10-44.

I specifically changed from a too-big 48 to a 46, so the 46/10 was useable on descents. My 46/13 is the largest gear I use on flats and minor 2% down slopes. The 10 and 11 are descents only.

satanas
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

Intersting to see others' gear choices! ;-)

I'm an outlier here as my use is what passes for gravel riding here (steep fire roads, some singletrack, no flat sections), plus bikepacking/touring; I'm too old and ectomorphic to be interested in racing any more.

My main concerns with gearing are thus avoiding having useless high gears (I'm a spinner), having low enough gears to get up 25+% rocky fire roads, preferably with at least some luggage, and avoiding >2T gaps in the middle gears where I spend most time. 46x11 (or 46x10) would only be useful for me for fast descents on paved roads, so basically wasted gears at the top end. I'd be happy with 46x13, 44x12, 42x11 (or 36x10!) with 2x, none of which are easily achievable. 1x gives too many nasty gaps for my liking, not enough range, plus the stock rings from Shimano and SRAM are too big unless one uses MTB cranks which blows out the Q factor unacceptably.

With SRAM the problems for me are FD to tyre clearance (maybe fixable with the Wide FD), plus too many high gears and not enough low gears, and badly-placed gaps with both 1x and 2x. With Shimano the FD problem is reduced but the others still remain, and if anything are worse with 12 speed GRX than they were with 11; at least with 11 one could (unofficially) use the 11-40/42 MTB cassettes, but there are no 12 speed equivalents, from Shimano at least. Sigh.

DaveS
Posts: 3941
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

SRAM offers 43/30 cranks with wide spacing and the wide FD that's supposed to clear a 48mm tire. The 10-36 and 10-44 cassettes are very similar. The 10-44 loses the 12. The 13-32 sprockets are the same. Then there's two 6T jumps instead of 4T. You can't get more range without bigger jumps somewhere. There are no inappropriate 2T jumps. Most riders do have some descents where the 10-11 see some use. I tried Specialties TA 44/28 chain rings for my grx cranks, but they shifted poorly, dropping the chain off to the outside if the chain was on any of the smallest five sprockets when the shift was made.
Last edited by DaveS on Sun Dec 17, 2023 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

satanas
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

DaveS wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2023 3:13 pm
I tried Specialties TA 44/28 chain rings for my grx cranks, but they shifted poorly.
^ Do you mean not as fast as Shimano, or unreliably with chain drops, etc? If the former, no big deal for me, if the latter it's a hard pass.

Also, FWIW Gearoop in Taiwan make direct mount double rings to fit SRAM cranks, including 44x28:

https://www.gearoop-intl.com/category-K ... -ring.html

^ I haven't seen or used these, but they could be useful if they work okay.

Matte86
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:23 pm

by Matte86

satanas wrote:
DaveS wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2023 3:13 pm
I tried Specialties TA 44/28 chain rings for my grx cranks, but they shifted poorly.
^ Do you mean not as fast as Shimano, or unreliably with chain drops, etc? If the former, no big deal for me, if the latter it's a hard pass.

Also, FWIW Gearoop in Taiwan make direct mount double rings to fit SRAM cranks, including 44x28:

https://www.gearoop-intl.com/category-K ... -ring.html

^ I haven't seen or used these, but they could be useful if they work okay.
I am interest in those gearloop as well..
Hopefully someone has tried them

DaveS
Posts: 3941
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

The TA chain rings dropped the chain to the outside if the chain was on any of the smallest five sprockets when the shift to the big ring was made. I tried force and rival AXS FDs. Grx chain rings are far superior.

satanas
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

Thanks for clarifying Dave; that's not good...

(I wonder though if they'd behave better with a Shimano FD and chain.)

Tifosiphil
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:09 pm

by Tifosiphil

Anyone running an 11-50 cassette with a 50T+ chainring?

Trying to work out ratios as it's looking likely I will go to AXS shortly. Currently running DA mechanical with a 52/34 crank and have an 11-28 for road and 11-34 for gravel.

Would prefer to go to 1x if possible but don't think I will be able to get the range with just one deraileur. My ideal would be something like a 52T chainring with the 10-33 for road and then switching to a 10-44 or 10-50 with a 44t chainring for gravel and cross. Any better options or just stick with Shimano Di2 (my preference for 2x)

satanas
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

@ Tifosiphil: Whilst you could do all the above things with SRAM, there are a number of gotchas:

1. 50T+ and 50T cassette should be easy enough but would require a rather long chain, an Eagle rear derailleur, and would have some IMO nasty gaps
2. Eagle cassettes use an XD freehub body, whilst road use XDR, ~1.8mm longer. Eagle cassettes will fit on XDR bodies with an extra spacer, but road cassettes won't fit on XD. (Transmission has a different chainline by default, and maybe thus a different freehub body???)
3. There are now three incompatible (according to SRAM) 12 speed chains, road, Eagle, and Transmission
4. There are at least 5 different rear derailleurs, depending on cassette size and chainline:
i) Red short knuckle does 10-26/28/30/33
ii) other road does 10-28/30/33/36
iii) XPLR does 10-36/44
iv) Eagle does 10-50/52 & 11-50
v) Transmission does 10-52 matching cassette on +3mm wider chainline

Switching chainrings is the easy part, but will most likely mean different chain lengths and maybe types, plus different RDs might be required too, depending on the cassette sizes desired.

(FWIW, I'm sticking with 2x mechanical and Shimano for the foreseeable future; 1x is okay on MTBs otherwise not so much IMHO)

basurper
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:50 am

by basurper

Matte86 wrote:
satanas wrote:
DaveS wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2023 3:13 pm
I tried Specialties TA 44/28 chain rings for my grx cranks, but they shifted poorly.
^ Do you mean not as fast as Shimano, or unreliably with chain drops, etc? If the former, no big deal for me, if the latter it's a hard pass.

Also, FWIW Gearoop in Taiwan make direct mount double rings to fit SRAM cranks, including 44x28:

https://www.gearoop-intl.com/category-K ... -ring.html

^ I haven't seen or used these, but they could be useful if they work okay.
I am interest in those gearloop as well..
Hopefully someone has tried them
I tried Gearoop 44-28t and 46-30t on Sram Red AXS 10-33t without success. Can't shift to big ring at all on the ride.

Sent from my SM-F731B using Tapatalk


basurper
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:50 am

by basurper

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic? ... source=app

Sent from my SM-F731B using Tapatalk


by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply