New GRX this year?

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ooo
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

ultimobici wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:13 pm
ooo wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:43 pm
ultimobici wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:43 pm
There is no such thing as Micro Spline Road. It is Micro Spline. End of!
freehub body is tagged MSR, as you can see on Niekgeerts pics. it is also called "micro spline road" in dt catalogs:
Shimano Micro Spline Road cassette mount, material: aluminium, design: light with standard bearings, with end cap
Size: 12 x 142 mm Colour: Black Weight: 54 g PU: 1 kit
EAN/UPC: 7613052387512
Manufacturer number: HWYABL00S1960S
recommended Retail price: €72.90
Shimano Micro Spline Road cassette holder, material: aluminium, design: light with ceramic bearings, with end cap
Size: 12 x 142 mm Colour: Black Weight: 53 g PU: 1 kit
EAN/UPC: 7613052387505
recommended Retail price: €137.90
Still not conclusive that Shimano are introducing a new 12 speed freehub. Why would they? They have 12 speed cassettes in 10-45 & 10-51 already. Why introduce a whole raft of cassettes that require a new standard? Unless the top sprocket on the current MS doesn't line up in the same position as the road 12 speed? But bearing in mind how close they both are to the dropout, it's unlikely to be that.

This is far more likely to be DT main their wheels compatible rather than a new standard.
Shimano have patents for micro spline freehub adaptors to other freehub standard. micro spline mtb cant be converted to road freehub, because it is too short. MSR is wider. We can ask someone who have MSR on hands compare it with standard road freehub.

Even if Shimano will not make new 10T cassettes, it will make sense to make 10T gravel wheels adaptable to 11T cassettes. it sounds too good to be true, so I am not sure if/when shimano will use these patents
'

Karvalo
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

ultimobici wrote:
Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:13 pm
Still not conclusive that Shimano are introducing a new 12 speed freehub. Why would they? They have 12 speed cassettes in 10-45 & 10-51 already. Why introduce a whole raft of cassettes that require a new standard? Unless the top sprocket on the current MS doesn't line up in the same position as the road 12 speed? But bearing in mind how close they both are to the dropout, it's unlikely to be that.

This is far more likely to be DT main their wheels compatible rather than a new standard.
You're overthinking it.

Microspline road would just be a 1.85mm (is it?) wider version of microspline to... wait for it... fit in the right place on existing road hubs with space for an 11sp driveshell. That's literally it. Existing cassettes will fit on it with the road spacer you already know and love from HG 11 freehubs because that's how you'll get the cassette in the right place. It's as simple as that.

by Weenie


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Buckland420
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:29 am
Location: UK

by Buckland420

As Karvalo says, it looks like the difference between MS & MSR is very much like the difference between XD & XDR: https://www.enve.com/journal/freehubs-e ... ro-spline/

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Packs
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Location: Cheltenham

by Packs

I think the MSR is just a DT Swiss thing where the freehub flat base is 1.85mm wider (to fit on existing road hubs where the free hubs are slightly bigger than the MTB ones).
I'd guess the spline part is the same size on both versions (MS and MSR) so no spacer required.
There's no point having longer splines on a "road" version.

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pdlpsher1
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Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

MSR is not just a DT Swiss thing. Any bike manufacturer who wants to sell a GRX 1x 12-speed bike will have to use the MSR standard on the freehub, whether the freehub is DT Swiss or not. Also anyone who wishes to upgrade their existing GRX 11-speed bike to GRX 1x 12-speed will need the MSR from their freehub brand.

When someone mounts a 12-speed MTB MS cassette on a MSR they will need to add a 1.85mm spacer behind the cassette.

RDY
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:21 pm
MSR is not just a DT Swiss thing. Any bike manufacturer who wants to sell a GRX 1x 12-speed bike will have to use the MSR standard on the freehub, whether the freehub is DT Swiss or not. Also anyone who wishes to upgrade their existing GRX 11-speed bike to GRX 1x 12-speed will need the MSR from their freehub brand.

When someone mounts a 12-speed MTB MS cassette on a MSR they will need to add a 1.85mm spacer behind the cassette.
I smell an MS-like disaster where Shimano play games and don't widely license the standard ...

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pdlpsher1
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Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Maybe the MSR license is already covered under the existing MS license. They both use an identical technology. And producing the MSR should be easy for anyone already producing the MS.

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FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2348
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

When are we expecting the embargo to be lifted? April?
Specialized SW Æthos (2021) 6.1kg
Specialized SW Crux (2022) 7.2kg
Specialized SW Tarmac (2022) 7.1kg
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg

*all weights are race ready bikes, large frame size.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT Disc

robertbb
Posts: 1943
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:48 pm
When are we expecting the embargo to be lifted? April?
For what? Is there a new GRX coming out soon? :D

People "in the know" were saying late this year, and nothing solid...but personally I thought that was a stretch. Shimano's miles behind on their all-road groupsets.

I'm secretly wishing it'll include a 1x13 option.... or at least some all-road specific cassettes like 11-40 or 11-42, and not rely on their existing MTB cassettes if it does happen to be 12 speed. Fingers crossed.

henau212
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:27 pm

by henau212

robertbb wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:14 am
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:48 pm
When are we expecting the embargo to be lifted? April?
For what? Is there a new GRX coming out soon? :D

People "in the know" were saying late this year, and nothing solid...but personally I thought that was a stretch. Shimano's miles behind on their all-road groupsets.

I'm secretly wishing it'll include a 1x13 option.... or at least some all-road specific cassettes like 11-40 or 11-42, and not rely on their existing MTB cassettes if it does happen to be 12 speed. Fingers crossed.
Cannot be that far, the new group popped up on a Orbea Terra at a German retailer (https://www.der-dynamo.de/orbea-terra-m ... EAM-2023.3). Unfortunately no specific date or gearing given (bike here is 2x). Interesting: Price is only 100€ extra compared to the 2022 2x11 version. I hope it stays that way.

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2348
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

There are bikes being for pre-order now, that are due to ship to customers in Q2, so I doubt it'd be much later than that.
Specialized SW Æthos (2021) 6.1kg
Specialized SW Crux (2022) 7.2kg
Specialized SW Tarmac (2022) 7.1kg
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg

*all weights are race ready bikes, large frame size.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT Disc

robertbb
Posts: 1943
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

^^ That Orbea is clearly showing GRX 810...

henau212
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:27 pm

by henau212

robertbb wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:36 pm
^^ That Orbea is clearly showing GRX 810...
They did a fast job cleaning that up ;) Question now: was that a typo or is 810 a placeholder now?..

maurice1
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:51 pm
Location: Jura

by maurice1

robertbb wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:14 am
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:48 pm
When are we expecting the embargo to be lifted? April?
For what? Is there a new GRX coming out soon? :D

People "in the know" were saying late this year, and nothing solid...but personally I thought that was a stretch. Shimano's miles behind on their all-road groupsets.

I'm secretly wishing it'll include a 1x13 option.... or at least some all-road specific cassettes like 11-40 or 11-42, and not rely on their existing MTB cassettes if it does happen to be 12 speed. Fingers crossed.
Comment from Gravel cyclist on youtube:
"About GRX 12-speed, watch this space."
to which I asked if he had seen it in flesh yet, and his answer was "No, but definitely watch this place". Wink implied.

robertbb
Posts: 1943
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

@henau212: Your sacred WW duty is to take screenshots and stick them on here and Reddit before they scrub it! :twisted:

@maurice1: ooh, juicy. I've got a frame sitting here waiting for a new groupset. Keep adding 11 speed Di2 GRX to the cart then backing out... it's p*ssing me off. One thing for sure, a certain way of getting 12 speed Di2 to be announced is for me to click "buy now" on 11 speed :lol:

by Weenie


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