Building WW Full-internally cable routed SuperX MY2017

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Pyotrump
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:01 pm

by Pyotrump

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Recently I bought this frameset. I am going to build a WW sleek all road bike out of this outdated frameset.
I did thorough research and come to find some interesting details


1. It uses SI headtube, which is cannodale specific horrible thingy you know...

The exact dimmension of headset bearing(it has the same diameter, both bottom and upper holes) is OD 50.8mm, ID39.7, H 7mm, 45 degree (the bearing has single chamfer: the iner lace of it. The external, bottom part of bearing is not slanted.)

However, the infamous FSA ACR utilises OD 52, ID 40, H8, 36/36 (both inner and outer lace are chamfered)
So it means If I make to find any bearing with OD 50.8 ID40 (or 39.8mm ) H7mm, 36degree,
I will be able to use ACR's U shaped compression ring and its cover thus fabricating a fully integrated Super X.

Unfortunately, there isn't the exactly the same one as far as I know.
but I got OD51, ID40, H6.5, 36/36 which is for Trek bikes

I will widen the frames headtube Inner Diametre 0.2mm 50.8 --> 51mm. I think there's no structural damage at all for it is mere chunky alloy insert.
But I've got to make a OD51, ID40 H0.5mm and 36 degree slanted shim with my 3d Printer for the perfect fit and top cover gap.


2. The Super X's fork

Of course for it is 2017 model, there's no pre drilled hole on the steerer tube and I will never do anything with a drill...
Fortunately however, there is no obstacle between the exit of the front hydraulic line and the top hole of the steerer tube so I am 100% sure I can use ACR system.



3. Future plan

Now I am collecting parts and scaps from my garage and ebay rigorously.


Grouppo: 9100 mechanical, 11/32 cassette.
Crankset: rotor aldhu carbon, Rotor inspider PM, 50-34 Qrings
Caliper: Trp spyre SLC
Cables: Jagwire Elite roadlink for brakes and Jag's elite sealed shifting cable kit for shifting.
Wheelset: CSC cheapo carbon wheelset H38mm, external width 21mm, AI specific (came with the frameset...) / KCNC razor 160mm*2 6bolt / 32c 5000s tr
Pedal: Do not know what to choose..
Handlebars: 3T superghiaiaLTD 40cm
Stem: Kalloy UNO 100mm
Headset: FSA's No69 and compression nut for ACR routing
Seatpost: stock Save2 carbon one is helluva heavy so I am planning to buy HYLIX 25.4 one. Any Ideas?
Last edited by Pyotrump on Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Pyotrump
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:01 pm

by Pyotrump

Ooops... I double posted the same topic... How can I delete them?

by Weenie


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Relientk1202
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:30 pm

by Relientk1202

Super interested to see where this goes! Make sure to keep us updated!!!


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DrimeOser
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:35 pm

by DrimeOser

Jesus, that is a big task ahead.

But frankly, TRP Spyres are about the worst choice of brakes. Plus, mechanical brakes already need hoses that are going in rather wider curves to work. Now, a mechanical disc brake that already seriously lacks power will suffer from friction even more with cables being integrated. That is why most integrated setups are using hydraulic brakes and electronic shifting, so no cables.
Then, beware of creating a shear off point at the headtube. Already many bikes have had snapped headtubes from integrated solutions, even though factory designed.

Pyotrump
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:01 pm

by Pyotrump

@DrimeOser

Thank you for your kind suggestion.

1. Using mechanical brakes:
No need to worry about TRPs. I've already built 2 bikes with them and I know that if meticulously set they are quite superb. What I want to build is not a fully gravel or cx dedicated bike but a fun winter season fatty tire roady. Anyway Juintech's 4 piston semi hydro is in my contingency plan.

2. Internal cable routing:
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Of course they are really tricky but with linked housing and properly selected parts it is quite doable.

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Once I installed TRPs on my Felt IA disc, which is almost full-internal frameset, it was so smooth. I already built my ex-s BMC roadmachine 01 with 9070 di2, elite roadlink, TRP spyre. The only one point which caused severe cable curvature is the segment between frame's exit hole and TRP's cable entry point. That section must be longer than 60mm at least if mechanical cable actuated calipers are considered.

My bike will be just like any FSA acr ones around the world. No worries mate!
Last edited by Pyotrump on Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kroem
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:37 pm

by kroem

Very nice, exciting!
Canyon Ultimate SLX 6.7kg (crashed/dead)
Tantan/Winow GR039 7.2kg
All-City Space Horse (scrapped, for now)
Waltly Gravel (stolen... :evil: )
PX Spitfire Ti

Pyotrump
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:01 pm

by Pyotrump

Mid build report here!

Unfortunately due to BikeInn's serious fault I could not have ACR compression nut (which make its possible to pass front brake line through the steering tube)
I think I should buy 3rd party disc fork with front cable port on steering column.


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with Newmen SL38A wheelset & GP5000 TL 28c
7310g with cages and mounts)

Future plan:
1. changing the rubbers to GP5000 23c CL with schwalbe aerothan TPU tubes --> 200g lighter
2. Buy hylix 25.4 post and axles --> 50g shaved
3. Sell rotor inspider and buy rotor DM chainring 50/34 with Assioma uno(300g and it is 10g heavier than my pedals) --> 110g gone

So I may reach 6950g


Image

Cushy option:
Schwalbe Pro one 34c tubeless on a cheapo CSC wheelset.

7760g
Last edited by Pyotrump on Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

cgbae
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:56 pm

by cgbae

Can you take some pictures showing the headset situation with cabling, gap etc.?

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Kurt1980
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:41 am

by Kurt1980

Following on from here, with updates stopped part way through unfortunately...

Has anyone else ever updated their old(er) frames with full internal routing?

I have a first gen Scott Foil, and my headset is too small it seems to use the ACR or similar systems. Headset OD is 41mm, and from what people are saying you need an OD of 50mm minimum to make this work.

Therefore, is it possible to use a d-shaped steerer and modified compression ring (which I would also have to source) in order to make this work?

FYI, this would also be with a full mechanical setup, so whether or not the bends would be too tight is also an unknown. I'd probably need to figure out internal cable stops to, so there's a bit there....

If it's too hard, then I would leave it, but the idea of a hidden, clean looking bike that's full mechanical appeals to me.

Any help is appreciated.

On another note, is there any reason why I can post photos in some threads, but not this one? I'm well over 100 posts FWIW.

Kurt

Pyotrump
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:01 pm

by Pyotrump

Kurt1980 wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:53 am
Following on from here, with updates stopped part way through unfortunately...

Has anyone else ever updated their old(er) frames with full internal routing?

I have a first gen Scott Foil, and my headset is too small it seems to use the ACR or similar systems. Headset OD is 41mm, and from what people are saying you need an OD of 50mm minimum to make this work.

Therefore, is it possible to use a d-shaped steerer and modified compression ring (which I would also have to source) in order to make this work?

FYI, this would also be with a full mechanical setup, so whether or not the bends would be too tight is also an unknown. I'd probably need to figure out internal cable stops to, so there's a bit there....

If it's too hard, then I would leave it, but the idea of a hidden, clean looking bike that's full mechanical appeals to me.

Any help is appreciated.

On another note, is there any reason why I can post photos in some threads, but not this one? I'm well over 100 posts FWIW.

Kurt
1. OD 42mm is too narrow to use ACR, Token Box system ..Syncross headset

2. Yes you can. I recommend using ridley's fork. As far as I know there's a retailer in GB who is a Ridley dealer in Britain and sells D shaped forks. (do not forget to source D shaped spacer to fill the gap in the stem. The original ridley part is grey coloured.

3. I recommend Di2 or at least Hydro mechanical shifters. or if you insist to use Full mechanical shifters go with 1x. and you better use jagwires link cables and their super slick cable. D shaped steerer is too tight to put all 2 mechanical brake cables and 2 shifting cables..

sorry for being late for I was preparing for a bar exam phew...
Last edited by Pyotrump on Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pyotrump
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:01 pm

by Pyotrump

cgbae wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 3:44 pm
Can you take some pictures showing the headset situation with cabling, gap etc.?
Here are some detailed pics around headset and topcap

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I decided to keep using old super X fork. I could route the cable through the steerer column.
The compression plug used here is sourced from Ali-express. I remember it was made by a brand "Redshift".

I dremelled some carbon from the stem cap (also from Redshift) and routed cable thorugh it.
You can notice that there's metal noodle for V brake. It is because, I use jagwire's elite road link cable for the mechanical TRP spyre brakes and the cable has limited curve radius. The metal noodle, which you can easily find around any bike shop. It will not be needed if you use Hydro lines. This is a cheapo and simple solution (I think...)




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I also dremelled the original carbon headset topcap which came with the frameset. It was bit messy and tiring process for I had no experience using a rotary tool. The slit is 15mm width, and 7mm height.

And I also want to point out that I could accomplish the perfect headset cover gap.


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pic from different angle.
Last edited by Pyotrump on Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pyotrump
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:01 pm

by Pyotrump

23rd Sep, 2022 update


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Recently, I swapped the wheelset from Cube newmen r38 sl --> Elite drive 65D

I love those loops. It is 1470g with 2 tubeless valves (5g *2 == 10g) and tubeless tape glued on.
Considering it is quite deep, the result is astonishing.

* F: drive 65D/ Michelin power competition 23c (194g) / ridenow TPU (27g)/ stock tubess tape (10g)
KCNC razor rotor 82g with DT's 6 bolt adapter 29g

* R: drive 65D/ Ccorsa speed 25c 2.0 TLR (242g)/ valve(5g)/ stan's sealant (27g)/ matrix TL tape (14g)
Ashima 140 ai2 53g with DT's adapter 29g

Final result is 7.100kg(+/- 20g) .. with pedals, 2 cages, and garmin mount.
(Look Keo cheapo clippless pedal is 275g)

_________________________________________________________________________________________
Upcoming items are bellow. I already ordered them.

* seat post
from: Cannondale stock carbon post 15mm offset. cut 30mm. --> 175g
to: Hylix 25.4 0mm offset post 143g (it will be cut so maybe 120g)
Delta: 55g

* 6 bolt rotor adapters
From: DT swiss adapter 29*2 == 58g
To: bikeahead adapter 19*2==38g
D: 20g

* Thrugh axles
From: stock syntace axles: 76g both F and R
TO: J&L axles: 45g
D: 31g

* Swapping rear tire
F: vittoria speed 2.0 TLR 25c 242g + sealant 27 + valve 5g + tubeless tape 14g == 288g
T: Hutchinson Fusion 3, 23c 204g + ridenow TPU 30g + veloplug 5g == 239g
D: 50g

* Selling Rotor inspider and Keo classic 3 and buying assioma Uno and Rotor DM ring
F: Rotor inspider + 52/36 Qrings + 4 chainring bolts + Keo classic3 == 149+136+7+281 == 573g
T: 50/34 round DM ring + Assioma Uno == 175 + 278 == 453g
D: 120g


Total: -276
7100g (+/- 20g) ==> 6824g with pedals, PM, and 65mm deep wheelset! on a CX frameset!!! :smartass:
Last edited by Pyotrump on Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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eucalyptus
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:51 am
Location: Sweden

by eucalyptus

No more pictures of how you did the internal routing? Like how did you get the hoses through the upper headset bearing?

Also the front brake hose, goes through the top cap, then what? Because original it goes on the outside and then through the fork

StiffWeenies
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm

by StiffWeenies

Seriously impressive build. I wonder what other pre-internal frames can pull off this mod?

by Weenie


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Pyotrump
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:01 pm

by Pyotrump

eucalyptus wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:39 am
No more pictures of how you did the internal routing? Like how did you get the hoses through the upper headset bearing?
A: Cannondale super X MY2017 has Si headtube which incorporates ID 50.8mm (2 inches) both bottom and top.
I saw a potential and cocnluded I can integrate FSA's ACR (cable internalisation headset system) into this.


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Unfortunately, ACR comes with a bearing (OD 52mm, ID 40mm, H 8mm, upper side 36 degree inward chamfer, bottom side 45 degree outward)

Bearing is too big(52mm) to be placed in SuperX (50.8mm)

So I desperately searched for similar bearing and could not get 50.8mm one. However One day, I came to an alternative solution.
I came to know that some Trek bike uses a bearing OD51 ID40 H7 36,45. which is really similar to FSA's.

All I need to do is machine some material (0.1mm*2 == 0.2mm) off to make 50.8 tube into 51.
I wanted an interference fit and successfully made it.



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Now I can fit the most important part. THE FSA ACR's C NUT! (a metal part which looks like Crescent)


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However it is not done.... yet. My original plan was to utilise FSA headset No.69

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But the black plastic upper cap's bottom lid was way up high making a huge gap between it and the frameset
I could shave some material from the cap's internal column but decided to use original cap which was laying around my workshop.

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The original Cdale's upper cap is made of CFRP and structurally solid. But I wonder who the hell wanted to make this part that strong for no reason.
As there are plenty of carbon fibres in this small cap, I was not worried about structural integrity at all.
I cut a window (red coloured area) with my Dremel.
As you know, 3 cables (R brake, and R and F shifting) go through that hole.
However, there's no cable stop but there's one for the F derrailleure around bb shell.
So I had to insert whole external housing into the frameset. I used Jagwire's elite road link housings.
I am not ready to build a custom cable stop like Takolino did on his thread(viewtopic.php?f=10&t=163002&start=15)




eucalyptus wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:39 am
Also the front brake hose, goes through the top cap, then what? Because original it goes on the outside and then through the fork
ImageImage
img source: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slow ... 7024521-5/
Some forks (e.g. 3T's Strada, Exploro, Cervelo's P series) do not have any obstruent inside of them.
I mean, you can penetrate front brake line from the exit hole on a leg of fork to the top end of the steerer column.

When I was not that sure to buy this bike and just had a abstract build plan,
one of my acquaintances told me "I accidentally put a top cap bolt into the steerer and managed to bring it out through the bottom cable hole."
At that moment, I realised that I have a chance.
Last edited by Pyotrump on Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:36 am, edited 5 times in total.

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