New Cannondale Gravel/Cyclocross?

The spirit of Grav-lo-cross. No but seriously, cyclocross and gravel go here!

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niklasp
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:36 pm

by niklasp

Cycliste wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:20 pm
Looks like what I wanted from Cannondale way before they made the Topstone Carbon and lefty. They never made it and I went for a TCX. I dont know why they didn't start out with something like this. Also, this is a step towards the age of "gravel race" bikes. Which falls in line with other brands splitting their gravel bikes. Canyon Grail & Canyon Grizl for example.
Wait a minute... A cyclocross that is then!? 😁

New race bred CX bikes fit wider tires... Like 45 "with room".

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Pottermouse
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:55 pm

by Pottermouse

Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:08 pm
Yes, rear wheel needs to be dished specifically for Ai frames, it's a bit of a PITA if you want to swap wheels between bikes but otherwise, it's a very good idea, shorter chainstays, bigger tire clearance, stiffer rear wheel.

I wouldn't be suprised if Cannondale had planned to launch the bikes at Unbound Gravel but now that they always want to have bikes already available in shops the day they are launched instead of launching bikes that nobody can buy for months, the current global supply chain situation may have force them to wait...

One online shop I saw was claiming availability early September.
I have an AI SuperX (which I love). AI was an excuse to get a set of handbuilt wheels, which was nice.

However, despite that I do agree it is a PITA (stopped riding Cannondale MTB because of Lefty's which were/ are great forks but compatible with nothing... and slightly odd headset sizing too). My ideal bike would be compatible with widely available off the shelf parts (a lot of Specialized bikes out as well).

Question for me is... what is the upside of AI? Is it a big one, or just Cannondale wanting to do things differently?

bikewithnoname
Posts: 1734
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Paris

by bikewithnoname

We are told that Ai wheels = shorter chainstays. But in reality an FSI has chainstays 3mm shorter than an EPIC HT, a differnece i doubt anyone would notice, so it's a bit of Cannondale being Cannondale
"We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities." Oscar Wilde

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 2413
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Not sure about mountain bikes, but for a road/gravel/CX bike, it does allow shorter stays for a given max tire size as the drivetrain is pushed outwards by 6mm (don't quote me on the measure, just from memory) so the driveside chainstay is pushed away from the tire without having clearance issues with the chainring(s) and you have more front derailleur clearance with big tires (for those using one, it helps particularly with eTap's big battery coming dangerously close to the tire on some bikes).

Also, because the rim is still centered with the bike's centerline but the rear hub sits 6mm further towards the driveside, the rear wheel can be made stiffer and more durable since the spoke geometry is closer to a perfect balanced triangle, they are angled more like this: /\ instead of like this: /| so they are tensionned more evenly.

So I wouldn't say it's Cannondale just being Cannondale, unless by that you mean Cannondale doing things their own way to provide an improvement over the norm. Same with a Lefty, it's a PITA if you want to use wheels you already had or swap them frequently, but otherwise you do get an improvement. In the case of Ai rear wheels, a normal wheel usually can be dished pretty easily for a Ai frame, no need for a whole rebuild it with new spokes.

lvhdds
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:21 pm

by lvhdds

Road Boost is coming 8) ...Focus already did it.

grover
Posts: 1302
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:06 pm

by grover

The chainstays connect the rear axle to the bottom bracket. At some point the need to pass between the tyre and the chainrings.

There has to be a compromise to do this.
- Less tyre clearance
- Longer chainstay
- Smaller cross section of chainstay (less stiff all else being equal)
- Indirect path of chainstay (dropped chainstay)
- Wider chainline

Every frame design must solve this problem in some way.

Cannondale has chosen to solve this problem by widening the chainline. That is essentially what Ai is, a wider chainline.
MTB 55mm vs 49mm standard or 52mm boost
Road 51mm vs 45mm standard or 48mm boost

It is a good solution in that, all else being equal, allows
- bigger tyres
- shorter chainstays
- more direct chainstay path (weight/stiffness?)
- maintain cross section (stiffness)

It has the downsides of
- proprietary cranksets/chainrings to achieve different chainline
- wider q-factor in some instances
- assymetrical dropouts relative to midline of bike resulting in wheels that can't be a direct swap for symmetrical dropout bikes (rear everything else)

Note that the assymetrical dropouts have an added benefit of a dishless rear wheel which, all else being equal, will be more durable and possibly stiffer.

Like everything. The buyer must decide what is important to them. For those who like to customise, like users of this forum, it can be a turn off, or a challenge to solve! :-) . But for the majority of users who ride the bike as it comes out of the box these design features are a selling point.

oldmac
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:49 am

by oldmac

Check the video: Kings Unbound, we can see the new bike.


We can also see some shot of the new bike in another video: Undaunted: Curtis White at Unbound Gravel 2021

bikewithnoname
Posts: 1734
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Paris

by bikewithnoname

I guess they may be holding the release until the mythical Shimano 12spd arrives or SRAM XPLR is available
"We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities." Oscar Wilde


Cycliste
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:02 am

by Cycliste

niklasp wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:01 am
Wait a minute... A cyclocross that is then!? 😁

New race bred CX bikes fit wider tires... Like 45 "with room".
[/quote]

Yes actually. It was hard to find a CX bike with that kind of clearance and "road" geo. There are more options now than 3 years ago.

At any rate. Here's to hoping this Cannondale has that kind of clearance, geo looks fun and fast feeling. :beerchug:

bikewithnoname
Posts: 1734
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Paris

by bikewithnoname

In somewhat tangental news the new Jekyll has moved from PF30 to BSA73, might we see a move the threads on this machine? I've personally not had any issues with PF30 or BB30 myself but threads are a lot easier to replace at home.
"We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities." Oscar Wilde

nooski
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:24 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by nooski

Unfortunatelly no threads but PF83A
Dum spiro spero
my bike: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=130302

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 2413
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Yes the new Jekyll uses a threaded BSA73 BB but the specs are already known and posted for the Evo SE, PF83A like the current SuperX.

The thing is, saving 100gr or whatever on a gravity oriented mountain bike that weighs... a lot, doesn't matter to anyone. On a 700-900gr road frame, it does... or at least most high end road bike consumers 'think' it does.

TiFan
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:40 pm

by TiFan

https://ciclimattio.com/p/supersix-evo- ... 0c63b1c8e1

https://ciclimattio.com/p/supersix-evo- ... 0c63b1c892

Not much in the way of info here yet but 40mm tyres as standard. Really keen to the the geo. If its pretty much a Supersix with big tyres, that could be very interesting. Big fan of the graphics too.

thegeekycyclist
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:44 am
Contact:

by thegeekycyclist

My stock WTB i23 wheels on the SuperX SE is nearing its end and I'm considering a Zipp 303S as a potential replacement.

has anyone re-dished the 303S without rebuilding with new spokes?

by Weenie


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