Hub suggestions that allow preload adjustment?

[eajohnson]

I have a brand new set of Hunt 42 limitless wheels with ceramicspeed bearings in which I can't eliminate the rattling play in the rear hub that gets worse the more the end cap is tightened and/or the more the through axle is tightened. I've got the ERD info for the Hunt rim and am looking for alternative rear hubs that I could use to rebuild this wheel at some point down the road as I have zero confidence in the hubs and bearings currently in the wheel. Essentially whatever I use will need the ability to set preload on the main hub shell bearings, as I don't want to end up with the same problem again. Ideally I'd like something that uses J bend spokes so I can use a spoke calculator because doing this myself I wouldn't have the option of trial and error with expensive spokes (I have essentially a fully equipped bike shop in my basement but parts inventory is limited to what I need to service what I own - no stock of straight pull spokes), another important feature is ease of maintenance (I have a decently large assortment of presses and pullers of many types but easier bearing replacements is better than more difficult ones). Type of brake rotor mount doesn't matter, I used six bolt rotors on my disc brake bikes, and adapters for centerlock hubs so either type works fine for me.

Whatever I use will need to be available in 24h/black/XDR/142x12.

So far all I've seen that fits the bill are Chris King R45D and Carbon-Ti X-Hub SL Disc Rear XDR 24. Neither is actually available anywhere at this time but it's possible to preorder the R45D for delivery this fall. The Carbon-Ti hub is not sold at any retailer anywhere in the world that I can find.

What are other good options? Again, ability to adjust preload/take up slack on the main bearings is an essential attribute so don't suggest anything that lacks that.

edit 2021-05-12:

List of hubs that allow actual bearing preload/play adjustment from this thread as of 2021-05-12:

Erase Road Disc Hubs https://www.erasecomponents.com/roaddischubs
White Industries CLD http://www.whiteind.com/hubcld
Syntace Straight RS https://www.syntace.com/en_GB/products/ ... ad-gravel/ (note no J-bend option and no spoke calc available)
Chris King R45D https://chrisking.com/products/r45d-centerlock-rear
Carbon-Ti X-HUB SL Disc https://www.carbon-ti.com/products/hubs/x-hub-sl-disc

[CampagYOLO]

I've got some road wheels built up with hubs from Erase that are excellent and would meet your criteria:

https://www.erasecomponents.com/roaddischubs

No idea about availability I'm afraid.

[pdlpsher1]

Adjustable preload is usually found on hubs that use angular contact bearings (or cup/cone bearings). The only big companies that still use angular contact bearings are Campy and Shimano. I currently ride Campy wheels and have owned Shimano wheels prior. They are excellent and highly recommended, but won't satisfy your requirement for an XDR freehub.

The hub bearing preload is the hardest part to get right. On a rear wheel with sealed bearings there are a total of four bearings. The preload has to be set and transferred to all four bearings. A bearing without preload or incorrectly set preload will wear out prematurely. The only hubs that don't use angular contact bearings that I trust is DT Swiss. They have very precise machining tolerances that don't need preload adjustments. The preload is set via the clamping force on the hub's end caps. Inside the freehub a precisely machined preload 'tube' transfer the preload from the outer bearing to the inner bearing. Likewise another tube inside the hub transfers the preloaded from the DS to NDS. My suggestion is for you to get the DT Swiss hubs with the XDR driver body. Problem solved.

[eajohnson]

I've got some road wheels built up with hubs from Erase that are excellent and would meet your criteria:

https://www.erasecomponents.com/roaddischubs

No idea about availability I'm afraid.

I hadn't heard of those before but they look interesting, and relatively inexpensive too. Thanks for the tip! Geometry looks good too.

[OnTheRivet]

White Industries. http://www.whiteind.com/hubswi

[eajohnson]

Adjustable preload is usually found on hubs that use angular contact bearings (or cup/cone bearings). The only big companies that still use angular contact bearings are Campy and Shimano. I currently ride Campy wheels and have owned Shimano wheels prior. They are excellent and highly recommended, but won't satisfy your requirement for an XDR freehub.

The hub bearing preload is the hardest part to get right. On a rear wheel with sealed bearings there are a total of four bearings. The preload has to be set and transferred to all four bearings. A bearing without preload or incorrectly set preload will wear out prematurely. The only hubs that don't use angular contact bearings that I trust is DT Swiss. They have very precise machining tolerances that don't need preload adjustments. The preload is set via the clamping force on the hub's end caps. Inside the freehub a precisely machined preload 'tube' transfer the preload from the outer bearing to the inner bearing. Likewise another tube inside the hub transfers the preloaded from the DS to NDS. My suggestion is for you to get the DT Swiss hubs with the XDR driver body. Problem solved.

Thanks. Yes I understand that, and even with a radial bearing there is still reason to have a tiny bit of preload or at least minimal clearances between bearings and races. The spacing of the outer race in the Hunt hub is controlled by the machined shoulders in the hub body, the spacing of the inner races is controlled by a load bearing tube (under compression) that lies between the two inner races and through which the hub axle runs. The differences between these two dimensions, plus the actual tolerances/machining internal to the bearings themselves, are what determine preload on these hubs. The problem is that the end result is a hub that has play when installed. It wouldn't surprise me too much if the whole thing was caused by a difference in tolerances between the new Ceramicspeed bearings being used combined with that spacer part that was engineered (or iteratively tuned through trial and error) to perfectly suit some other bearing. Which is I think the main problem with this approach - that if you substitute a different bearing then that precision manufactured tube that controls preload may be precisely wrong for the new bearing. You'd be locked in to the exact manufacturer and model of bearing that the hub was designed around.
I'd actually looked pretty closely at DT Swiss since I've had one of their 240 front hubs on a wheelset with over 50k kms on it and never needed any attention, still perfect. However the design is kind of similar to the Hunt, except it uses shoulders on the axle to locate the main bearing inner races instead of using a spacer tube in between the two main bearing inner races. The spacing of thouse shoulders on the hub axle becomes critical on those just as the dimensions of the spacer are critical in the Hunt design. DT swiss also requires several hundred dollars worth of specialized tools for service (or $300 for the whole kit), worst offender being the $100 ring nut tool to be able to replace the drive side hub bearing. All that said, I do still think of DT Swiss and taking second looks at it, particularly because it's relatively widely available - I could buy one today.

[eajohnson]

White Industries. http://www.whiteind.com/hubswi

Thanks, I've looked at White, just wasn't able to see any documentation that clearly indicates that the adjuster is able to actually adjust for preload on the main hub bearings. On a rear hub, simply being able to take up slack between the non drive side hub bearing and the outermost drive side freewheel bearing, doesn't necessarily mean anything with respect to the preload on the two main hub bearings. If you look at the White CLD axle spare part, the axle is smooth with no steps or shoulders that could laterally locate the inside main hub bearing inner race in order to allow that outer adjustment to directly control the preload.

[jfranci3]

https://r2-bike.com/SYNTACE-Rear-Hub-St ... y-SRAM-XDR

[eajohnson]

https://r2-bike.com/SYNTACE-Rear-Hub-St ... y-SRAM-XDR

Thanks, I hadn't looked at Syntace for hubs, it's not immediately clear whether the end adjustment actually affects preload or simply addresses taking up slack on the overall series of components that rides on the hub axle (such as the bearing inner races, spacers, etc.) in a similar manner to the White and Hunt hubs, such that the inner bearing races would all be secure with respect to the end caps but the hub body and freewheel which independently float on bearings around that might have a degree of lateral free play. Syntace are also straight pull only and don't seem to have published a spoke calculator specific to their hubs so correctly sizing spokes would be difficult.

[jfranci3]

You could probably just ask them.

[pdlpsher1]

I just re-read your original post. If your wheels are brand new have you tried contacting Hunt? What do they have to say about the hub play? You shouldn't have to fix someone else's problem. This could be just a one-off manufacturing issue and if that's the case they should send you a new wheel.

[eajohnson]

I just re-read your original post. If your wheels are brand new have you tried contacting Hunt? What do they have to say about the hub play? You shouldn't have to fix someone else's problem. This could be just a one-off manufacturing issue and if that's the case they should send you a new wheel.

A bit off topic but to be expected someone would ask I guess Yes I've been working through this with them for weeks, no explanation or end in sight. I've been shipped and tried a new axle which made no difference. I have a large investment in a new build sitting in boxes the last five months waiting for working wheels, I could just run the Hunts as they are but I expect the bearings will fail within a month or two given that there is actual loose play so before I go ahead and just allow them to be destroyed in use I want to have a plan for what I'm going to do when that happens. Given that most hubs take 2 to 3 month lead times for ordering right now, I'm doing my research.

[jlok]

White Industries. http://www.whiteind.com/hubswi

Thanks, I've looked at White, just wasn't able to see any documentation that clearly indicates that the adjuster is able to actually adjust for preload on the main hub bearings. On a rear hub, simply being able to take up slack between the non drive side hub bearing and the outermost drive side freewheel bearing, doesn't necessarily mean anything with respect to the preload on the two main hub bearings. If you look at the White CLD axle spare part, the axle is smooth with no steps or shoulders that could laterally locate the inside main hub bearing inner race in order to allow that outer adjustment to directly control the preload.

You should see instructions here http://www.whiteind.com/instructions

The axle has one end fixed and the other end adjusted by a collar. When you install the wheel to the frame, the dropouts clamp on the axle. Play is taken out by the correct adjustment of the collar. cheers.

[eajohnson]

White Industries. http://www.whiteind.com/hubswi

Thanks, I've looked at White, just wasn't able to see any documentation that clearly indicates that the adjuster is able to actually adjust for preload on the main hub bearings. On a rear hub, simply being able to take up slack between the non drive side hub bearing and the outermost drive side freewheel bearing, doesn't necessarily mean anything with respect to the preload on the two main hub bearings. If you look at the White CLD axle spare part, the axle is smooth with no steps or shoulders that could laterally locate the inside main hub bearing inner race in order to allow that outer adjustment to directly control the preload.

You should see instructions here http://www.whiteind.com/instructions

The axle has one end fixed and the other end adjusted by a collar. When you install the wheel to the frame, the dropouts clamp on the axle. Play is taken out by the correct adjustment of the collar. cheers.

Yes I know but the collar takes the slack out of the entire stack of inner bearing races and spacers but preload is the relationship between the main bearing inner races and the main bearing outer races. The fact that the inner races are secure relative to the axle without any lateral play does not have any bearing (ha ha) on the amout of preload or clearance in that relationship between the inner races and outer races that are interference fit into the hub body.
[edit: see information below, _if_ there is no spacer between the inner races then it does work, these other hubs all have spacers or axle shoulders that do the same thing as spacers but maybe White does not, their documentation does not mention preload and they have no engineering diagrams so it's difficult to say. I've emailed them and asked.]

[pdlpsher1]

Regarding White Ind. hubs, Peak Torque talked about it in one of his videos. It's a design that doesn't rely on finely machined inner tubes. He also talked about DT Swiss which relies on finely machined internal tolerances for precise bearing preloading. You can fast forward to 2:10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENybY0ujfLE&t=296s