12.7 lbs Gravel (versatile road), disc brakes, electronic shifting X-Shifter

The spirit of Grav-lo-cross. No but seriously, cyclocross and gravel go here!

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andreszucs
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by andreszucs

Toybota wrote:Wow.. sweet build.
I'm thinking about doing something similar with a Defy Frame.
What is a defy frame?


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tanhalt
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by tanhalt

andreszucs wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:05 pm

Where did you get the bar clamp adapter?
Bought a pair through this link on Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/WHZMF ... e-drop-bar

With the X-shifter pod, looks like this: Image
Yes I was running the Magura hose exposed and outside the handlebar tape for some time, not ideal. The BFO hose is the only one out there that can be heated because it’s not built with any fiber mesh inside, the material itself is a very strong plastic, plus is extremely light. I was careful with the heat gun, from far away and slowing pulling the hose until I was happy with the angle, it can bend with a kink if done too fast.
Interesting...so, that was the Magura high pressure hose? I ask because the Magura hose used on the low pressure systems (HS rim brakes, and the Julie disc?) is just a plastic hose with no reinforcement either. I might have to take some spare sections and play with some heat on them ;-)

The XS800 it’s a cool frame, X-shifter is going strong, happy with it.
It's a fun bike. Here's how I mounted the X-shifter: Image

And, a larger view showing the whole bike (from before the X-shifter): Image

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andreszucs
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by andreszucs

tanhalt wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:43 pm
andreszucs wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:05 pm

Where did you get the bar clamp adapter?
Bought a pair through this link on Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/WHZMF ... e-drop-bar

With the X-shifter pod, looks like this: Image
Yes I was running the Magura hose exposed and outside the handlebar tape for some time, not ideal. The BFO hose is the only one out there that can be heated because it’s not built with any fiber mesh inside, the material itself is a very strong plastic, plus is extremely light. I was careful with the heat gun, from far away and slowing pulling the hose until I was happy with the angle, it can bend with a kink if done too fast.
Interesting...so, that was the Magura high pressure hose? I ask because the Magura hose used on the low pressure systems (HS rim brakes, and the Julie disc?) is just a plastic hose with no reinforcement either. I might have to take some spare sections and play with some heat on them ;-)

The XS800 it’s a cool frame, X-shifter is going strong, happy with it.
It's a fun bike. Here's how I mounted the X-shifter: Image

And, a larger view showing the whole bike (from before the X-shifter): Image

So cool to see someone else using an identical setup! This handlebar clamp that you bought through Shapeways is my design btw, that's my shop account :thumbup:

here is the link for the BFO hose, shipping is expensive for a single item (to US), but it was still cheaper than buying a set of Magura hose from the bikeshop across the street from me.
https://r2-bike.com/BFO-BRAKEFORCEONE-B ... remsen-5-m

Gota say, that's a badass and functional gravel bike you have there, the boss!

wow! just now I noticed the triple ring set on the front, you must have like 800% range????

Nice water bottles! I also did BWR years ago!

My other gravel bike (monster version) is in the works 120mm travel in the back and 150 front! Image
Last edited by andreszucs on Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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andreszucs
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by andreszucs

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tanhalt
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by tanhalt

andreszucs wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:52 pm
So cool to see someone else using an identical setup! This handlebar clamp that you bought through Shapeways is my design btw, that's my shop account :thumbup:
That's awesome! You know, if it wasn't for coming across that adapter, I never would've bought the XS800 frameset. I have the Magura HS33s on an old ProFlex MTB, and if I was considering a CX bike frame with canti brake studs, I WANTED to run the hydraulic rim brakes, and your adapter showed how that was possible. Thanks!

Believe it or not, the combination of the Magura HS33s and the Hed wheels with the "Turbine" brake track is UNBELIEVABLY GOOD braking. I've also got a Fuji Jari disc gravel bike, and this setup blows the doors off the TRP Spyres on the Fuji, in power AND modulation. In fact, it brakes better than any disc setup I've ridden, on or off road. Seriously.
andreszucs wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:52 pm
Gota say, that's a badass and functional gravel bike you have there, the boss!

wow! just now I noticed the triple ring set on the front, you must have like 800% range????
Thanks....yeah, I like to say it has "ALLS the GEARS" 8)

Funny story about the triple...I orginally bought the crankset (52/42/30) to convert into a sub-compact double (46/30) by removing the outer chainring and swapping the middle 42T for a 46T. But, when I went to do that, I quickly discovered that the 46 would interfere ever so slightly with the chainstay...so, not wanting to "dimple" it (at least not right away), I just decided to leave the triple on there. To shift, I figured that since it has a downtube shifter boss, the easiest and lightest solution would be to grab a DT shifter out of my spare parts and mount it. With the 42 middle ring, and the 11-42 cassette, the chain basically "lives" in the 42 ring for 95% of my riding (I can see how it could convince someone to go 1X, actually)...BUT, when I need that "Low - Low" range, I can just reach down and pop it into the 30. I might shift the front rings 2-4 times during a multi-hour ride. No big deal. I actually even more rarely use the 52 than the 30, but on paved downhills it comes in handy at times.

I'm surprised you didn't say anything about the "Hite-Rite" :)

tanhalt
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by tanhalt

andreszucs wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:52 pm
My other gravel bike (monster version) is in the works 120mm travel in the back and 150 front! Image
Nice! And speaking of gravel bikes with suspension, here's a what I've been playing around with on the Fuji Jari for a bit:Image

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andreszucs
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by andreszucs

tanhalt wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:20 pm

Nice! And speaking of gravel bikes with suspension, here's a what I've been playing around with on the Fuji Jari
Sure did noticed the Hite-Rite! just too much going on in this thread to cover them all! :beerchug:

Loving your Fuji bike! It's funny how I have all the same ideas in my mind often times, to consider old shool components and blend with new tech, hard to pick one idea and go with it. Since most of my riding these days is to climb a mountain about 2 to 3 times per week as my routine workout, it made sense for me to go as light as I could, 12.7lbs is a PR killer...yet, still fun to go on weekend longer rides with possible dirt roads.

....now with the future monster bike, different story. I'll go where any MTB goes, but I'll get to the trail flying on the asphalt as fast as any road bike!

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Klaster_1
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by Klaster_1

@andreszucs how did you manage to make the BFO hose work? Because it's 4mm thick vs 5mm of regular hoses, the olive does not bite into the hose when tightened down.

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andreszucs
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by andreszucs

Klaster_1 wrote:@andreszucs how did you manage to make the BFO hose work? Because it's 4mm thick vs 5mm of regular hoses, the olive does not bite into the hose when tightened down.
Somehow it worked on first attempt, I believe I used a shimano olive. I didn’t see any leaks after several rides so I didn’t touch anymore! Image

Are you trying to install it right now?

Mine is going strong: can’t miss my change the brag about my bike again, using as a road bike lately, 12.43lbs with tufo 28mm Hi-composite Carbon’s.
Image



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Last edited by andreszucs on Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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andreszucs
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by andreszucs

Klaster_1 wrote:@andreszucs how did you manage to make the BFO hose work? Because it's 4mm thick vs 5mm of regular hoses, the olive does not bite into the hose when tightened down.
Just came across an idea if the problem persists: maybe a tinny cut on the back of the olive, just like a seat tube frame has a cut to ‘bite’ a seat post, you could try using a dremmel and a super thin cutter.


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TheKaiser
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by TheKaiser

andreszucs wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:23 pm
Just came across an idea if the problem persists: maybe a tinny cut on the back of the olive, just like a seat tube frame has a cut to ‘bite’ a seat post, you could try using a dremmel and a super thin cutter.
Super cool projects in this thread! Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable thing to try with cutting the olive, as some brands use olives that have a slit in them exactly as you describe. I don't know if they actually endorse the idea, but it can allow the olive to be reused too, as there is usually less plastic deformation with the slit design vs a solid olive, and once the compression nut is backed off you can often slide the used olive right off the hose, rather than having the crimp be permanently mushed into the hose material.

I saw someone inquire earlier in this thread about brake fluid incompatibility issues, but I didn't see a reply from you (apologies if it missed it). What fluid are you using as the Sram calipers would normally use DOT and the Magura levers would normally use mineral oil, and with most brands the seals will very rapidly swell and deform upon contact with the wrong fluid?

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by TheKaiser

tanhalt wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:20 pm
Nice! And speaking of gravel bikes with suspension, here's a what I've been playing around with on the Fuji Jari for a bit:Image
Cool AMP fork Tom, I am loving all the restomod stuff as there are so many promising but abandoned branches of the bike family tree!

Did that AMP fork come with disc tabs, in addition to the canti bosses that I see you have plugged in the pic, or did you have to rig something up custom? I am having trouble remembering how long they made those forks and how it overlapped with the intro of disc standards, but your's looks like it has alu legs, which were later models, so I am guessing it overlapped with IS disc mounts.

And then am I right that you are running a "reverse mullet" with a 26" front wheel which comes out roughly equal in OD to the rear due to the big ol' Dart tire?

tanhalt
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by tanhalt

TheKaiser wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:30 pm
tanhalt wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:20 pm
Nice! And speaking of gravel bikes with suspension, here's a what I've been playing around with on the Fuji Jari for a bit:
Cool AMP fork Tom, I am loving all the restomod stuff as there are so many promising but abandoned branches of the bike family tree!

Did that AMP fork come with disc tabs, in addition to the canti bosses that I see you have plugged in the pic, or did you have to rig something up custom? I am having trouble remembering how long they made those forks and how it overlapped with the intro of disc standards, but your's looks like it has alu legs, which were later models, so I am guessing it overlapped with IS disc mounts.

And then am I right that you are running a "reverse mullet" with a 26" front wheel which comes out roughly equal in OD to the rear due to the big ol' Dart tire?
Sorry it took so long to reply to this...didn't see the notification before.

Anyway, the Amp fork came with their proprietary spacing (1" between holes, IIRC) disc tabs on the back of the fork. I designed up and had CNC'd a post-mount caliper adapter to those tabs. Looks like this:
Image

And yeah, when I first set it up, I was running "reverse-mullet" (party in the front, business in the back :lol: ) due to the fork being originially designed for 26" tires. At full compression, there's the possibilty of tire contact with the edge of the lower link when running 650B. I found the largest 650B I can run in there without rubbing is a Conti Terra Speed, so the last time I had it set up with the Amp fork, I was running 650B Terra Speeds front and rear. If I want something beefier on the front, then it will be a 26" wheel...like that Dart in the initial photo, or the Schwalbe Billy Bonkers in the above photo (the Billy Bonkers is a nice tire, BTW).

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andreszucs
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by andreszucs

TheKaiser wrote:
andreszucs wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:23 pm
Just came across an idea if the problem persists: maybe a tinny cut on the back of the olive, just like a seat tube frame has a cut to ‘bite’ a seat post, you could try using a dremmel and a super thin cutter.
Super cool projects in this thread! Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable thing to try with cutting the olive, as some brands use olives that have a slit in them exactly as you describe. I don't know if they actually endorse the idea, but it can allow the olive to be reused too, as there is usually less plastic deformation with the slit design vs a solid olive, and once the compression nut is backed off you can often slide the used olive right off the hose, rather than having the crimp be permanently mushed into the hose material.

I saw someone inquire earlier in this thread about brake fluid incompatibility issues, but I didn't see a reply from you (apologies if it missed it). What fluid are you using as the Sram calipers would normally use DOT and the Magura levers would normally use mineral oil, and with most brands the seals will very rapidly swell and deform upon contact with the wrong fluid?
I’m using the royal blood mineral oil from Magura, no issues. Sorry for the late reply Image


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tanhalt
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by tanhalt

andreszucs wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:47 pm
TheKaiser wrote:
andreszucs wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:23 pm
Just came across an idea if the problem persists: maybe a tinny cut on the back of the olive, just like a seat tube frame has a cut to ‘bite’ a seat post, you could try using a dremmel and a super thin cutter.
Super cool projects in this thread! Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable thing to try with cutting the olive, as some brands use olives that have a slit in them exactly as you describe. I don't know if they actually endorse the idea, but it can allow the olive to be reused too, as there is usually less plastic deformation with the slit design vs a solid olive, and once the compression nut is backed off you can often slide the used olive right off the hose, rather than having the crimp be permanently mushed into the hose material.

I saw someone inquire earlier in this thread about brake fluid incompatibility issues, but I didn't see a reply from you (apologies if it missed it). What fluid are you using as the Sram calipers would normally use DOT and the Magura levers would normally use mineral oil, and with most brands the seals will very rapidly swell and deform upon contact with the wrong fluid?
I’m using the royal blood mineral oil from Magura, no issues. Sorry for the late reply Image


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As I understand it, the issue usually is with trying to use DOT fluid with components designed for mineral oil. DOT fluid requires special O-ring and seal rubber compounds (typically EPDM, IIRC) that systems designed for mineral oil don't need to use (can get by with less expensive Buna-N type materials). It's the latter that swells upon contact with DOT fluid, and EPDM is just fine with mineral oil.

Now then, there IS a DOT fluid, DOT 5 Silicone, (NOT to be confused with DOT 5.1 glycol-based fluid) that should be compatible with seals for both systems. DOT 5 Silicone fluid is commonly used in collector cars since it doesn't absorb water vapor and degrade. The downside is that if water vapor gets in the system, it can "pool" in areas and cause rust/corrosion (so stainless brake lines is a good idea)...and if the brake fluid gets hot enough for to boil the water, you quickly lose system pressure...which probably means Silicone may not be a good idea for bicycle disc brakes. Hydraulic rim brakes shouldn't have that issue, and I've thought about using DOT 5 Silicone in my Magura HS33s.

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