Titanium Gravel Made in the USA
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Carl Strong, Bozeman Montana
Stinner Frameworks, Goleta California
Brad Bingham, Steamboat Colorado
Stinner Frameworks, Goleta California
Brad Bingham, Steamboat Colorado
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I'm shopping Ti Dirt Road Bikes (gravel ...ugh that word grates on me) and I find that the companies that have a huge socail media presence....cough, Mosaic, cough generally have pretty paint jobs and as a customer you get to have your bike featured on social media (if that appeals to you) but the actual engineering and fabrication is just okay. I've narrowed it down to Bingham and Alliance.
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OnTheRivet wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:57 amI'm shopping Ti Dirt Road Bikes (gravel ...ugh that word grates on me) and I find that the companies that have a huge socail media presence....cough, Mosaic, cough generally have pretty paint jobs and as a customer you get to have your bike featured on social media (if that appeals to you) but the actual engineering and fabrication is just okay. I've narrowed it down to Bingham and Alliance.
I'll qualify this by saying that I think Mosaic have some gorgeous bikes. However, the owner Aaron Barcheck, he took bicycle fabrication at UBI and was taught by Mike DeSalvo. Now maybe Aaron has elevated his work above his teacher, that I can't say without having both in hand. But to look at a Mosaic and try to justify it is $2000 more than a similar DeSalvo (or Carl Strong for that matter), it's very difficult. At some point, the differences we are talking about in performance on any of these frames is very minute. Assuming the buyer can get the geometry, tubing and customization from any of them then it comes down to ego and perceived reputation for the most part.
I will say this: If I was going to enter in at the very top end of the Ti custom market price-wise (Mosaic, Firefly, Moots, Baum, Passoni), I think I would have to work hard to separate out the logic from the emotion. Some of the bikes I see built by Firefly and Mosaic really hit hard on a visual scale when looking at them on Instagram. But looking at it logically, I'd be inclined to choose Moots as they have the longest history of fabrication in titanium and I don't know a single person who has ever regretted owning a Moots. But really, it's a luxurious problem to have to pick one....
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An aside, I lose my mind when I see "custom frames" with 3 cm of spacer under the stem or the saddle jammed all the way forward on the rails. This is exactly why you buy custom, to not have these quirks. Who got it wrong, the builder or the customer?
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The $3k is the sticking point. Stoemper offers a custom Ti for $3800.
I have owned two different DeSalvo frames and they have both been amazing. I would recommend DeSalvo in a heartbeat. Only downside, I would say, is that as a 1 person operation, the waitlist can be lengthy. The price is also slightly higher than what you are looking for (under 3k for the frame, but frameset pushes it over $3k).Bigger Gear wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:14 amOnTheRivet wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:57 amI'm shopping Ti Dirt Road Bikes (gravel ...ugh that word grates on me) and I find that the companies that have a huge socail media presence....cough, Mosaic, cough generally have pretty paint jobs and as a customer you get to have your bike featured on social media (if that appeals to you) but the actual engineering and fabrication is just okay. I've narrowed it down to Bingham and Alliance.
I'll qualify this by saying that I think Mosaic have some gorgeous bikes. However, the owner Aaron Barcheck, he took bicycle fabrication at UBI and was taught by Mike DeSalvo. Now maybe Aaron has elevated his work above his teacher, that I can't say without having both in hand. But to look at a Mosaic and try to justify it is $2000 more than a similar DeSalvo (or Carl Strong for that matter), it's very difficult. At some point, the differences we are talking about in performance on any of these frames is very minute. Assuming the buyer can get the geometry, tubing and customization from any of them then it comes down to ego and perceived reputation for the most part.
I will say this: If I was going to enter in at the very top end of the Ti custom market price-wise (Mosaic, Firefly, Moots, Baum, Passoni), I think I would have to work hard to separate out the logic from the emotion. Some of the bikes I see built by Firefly and Mosaic really hit hard on a visual scale when looking at them on Instagram. But looking at it logically, I'd be inclined to choose Moots as they have the longest history of fabrication in titanium and I don't know a single person who has ever regretted owning a Moots. But really, it's a luxurious problem to have to pick one....
I also agree re: a big part of the justification for Mosaic, Baum, etc. is emotional/aesthetic. To me, that doesn't make it wrong though, just different. Part of buying a custom bike is having it feel special and appealing to you. I think aesthetics can be a big part of that. People routinely pay well over $1000 for custom paint on bikes regardless of the maker for this reason. If one builder has a design aesthetic that particularly appeals to you, than perhaps it is worth paying for, even if you can't justify the price difference based on performance alone.
Back to my original point though, I think that Mike DeSalvo makes some of the best frames around regardless of price and is perhaps the best value custom framebuilders.
The Cyclosys looks interesting. No geo chart, one build option?
Are these built one off to customer spec or standard sizes?
Buyers looking at custom should refer to wait list times. I've seen some builder over a year out. Seems rediculous as you can hire to shorten lead times (and still maintain standards/quality).
Are these built one off to customer spec or standard sizes?
Buyers looking at custom should refer to wait list times. I've seen some builder over a year out. Seems rediculous as you can hire to shorten lead times (and still maintain standards/quality).
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That's an amazing deal! My R240 frame (no fork) direct from Lynskey off eBay was nearly $1000, which I thought was a deal!
Gotta ask about your stem/handelbar set up...you inverted the stem, but then angle the bars down. Why? You could flip the stem and then angle the bars further up so the top of the bars/hoods are roughly horizontal. It will probably be more comfortable and look a lot better too.
Thanks, that frame was purchased long time ago.fiziksdrop180 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:18 pmThat's an amazing deal! My R240 frame (no fork) direct from Lynskey off eBay was nearly $1000, which I thought was a deal!
fiziksdrop180 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:18 pmGotta ask about your stem/handelbar set up...you inverted the stem, but then angle the bars down. Why? You could flip the stem and then angle the bars further up so the top of the bars/hoods are roughly horizontal. It will probably be more comfortable and look a lot better too.
The handlebars have deep drops. I like the stem setup the way it is when I'm in the drops.
I like the position of the setup and don't care so much how it looks.
It's more important to me to have a good position than to look good.
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none wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:22 amThanks, that frame was purchased long time ago.fiziksdrop180 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:18 pmThat's an amazing deal! My R240 frame (no fork) direct from Lynskey off eBay was nearly $1000, which I thought was a deal!
fiziksdrop180 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:18 pmGotta ask about your stem/handelbar set up...you inverted the stem, but then angle the bars down. Why? You could flip the stem and then angle the bars further up so the top of the bars/hoods are roughly horizontal. It will probably be more comfortable and look a lot better too.
The handlebars have deep drops. I like the stem setup the way it is when I'm in the drops.
I like the position of the setup and don't care so much how it looks.
It's more important to me to have a good position than to look good.
Previous poster was right. You can re-create your postion without the crazy looking seup.
If it is his bike he can do whatever he wants with it.OnTheRivet wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:53 pmPrevious poster was right. You can re-create your postion without the crazy looking seup.
I'm happy with my setup, no need to waste time to re-create same position, more time riding.
While I can't speak about Lynskey gravel bikes, I can speak about Lynskey road bikes since I own a Peloton model, I bought 8 years ago. As another person said, the welds indeed are beautifully and expertly done, the finish was well done brush job. At the time I bought that bike I compared to few others and it was the best buy in the TI market...except for the Motobecane, but they didn't have any in stock for over a year, so I decided on the Lynskey after it went on a closeout sale.
Remember too that Litespeed only exists because the Lynskey family created it, they then sold the company to a group which from things I've heard that group doesn't care as much for customer service as Lynskey did when they owned it. Also Lynskey originally started out with making titanium stuff for NASA/aerospace including the Mars Rovers. Lynskey also created the technique of cold tube manipulation that now all TI builders' use. So, for overall expertise, Lynskey is the leader and has 3 generations of experience under their belt.
Lynskey will be less expensive than a Litespeed or others.
One thing about ease of maintaining a TI bike that I learned when I bought mine, do not get a ti frame that has been bead blasted to give a highly polished look, or get a matte finish, both of those finishes, while they look cool, especially the polish finish, it's a lot more difficult to impossible with matte, to get scratches out vs a brushed finish.
My money would always be on the Lynskey, but that's just my opinion.
Remember too that Litespeed only exists because the Lynskey family created it, they then sold the company to a group which from things I've heard that group doesn't care as much for customer service as Lynskey did when they owned it. Also Lynskey originally started out with making titanium stuff for NASA/aerospace including the Mars Rovers. Lynskey also created the technique of cold tube manipulation that now all TI builders' use. So, for overall expertise, Lynskey is the leader and has 3 generations of experience under their belt.
Lynskey will be less expensive than a Litespeed or others.
One thing about ease of maintaining a TI bike that I learned when I bought mine, do not get a ti frame that has been bead blasted to give a highly polished look, or get a matte finish, both of those finishes, while they look cool, especially the polish finish, it's a lot more difficult to impossible with matte, to get scratches out vs a brushed finish.
My money would always be on the Lynskey, but that's just my opinion.