1x Campagnolo Ekar drivetrain

[RyanH]

It is absolutely not possible. Maybe in the new year there will be some crossover group or groups announced that might fit your needs.

How do you know this? Have you tested it? Did you confirm that the geometry is not the same? Threads on Paceline have wondered the same thing and there hasn't been a definitive answer. This is an online forum where we are supposed to be sharing knowledge, not random guesses.

[gorkypl]

Dumb question but does anyone think it's possible to run a Campy 12s RD with the Ekar shifters and Cassette? Road RD is 100g lighter and if my intent is minimal off road then I don't need a hardcore overly tensioned RD. I'd think with 1x there should be enough chain wrap capacity to handle the 9-36 Cassette.

With 13s, the tolerances for cable pull are super tight. But if (and only if) the cable pull is unchanged, then this might work, but with very rough shifting. Currently on my road bike with 11-32 cassette, the B screw is almost fully in. I presume 11-34 will bring it to the max. Clearing two more tooth *and* shifting down to 9 instead of 11 will result in huge distance from upper pulley to the smallest cogs. Given that 13s already has narrow spacing... I'm not really sure...

[Marin]

You can always use a longer hanger, or a smaller or offset top pulley. All 3 methods work really well with basically no downsides.

[gorkypl]

I guess this is mostly down to what is considered 'acceptable'. On my current gravel bike I can definitely feel worse shifting with 11-36 when compared to 11-32. The official max capacity of derailleur is 34.

[Miller]

How do you know this? Have you tested it? Did you confirm that the geometry is not the same?

Well, this is from the Campag Ekar product page. It's a different geo.

FEATURES & BENEFITS
New 1x13-specific design
2D parallelogram trajectory for 13 sprockets

[gwerziou]

It is absolutely not possible. Maybe in the new year there will be some crossover group or groups announced that might fit your needs.

How do you know this? Have you tested it? Did you confirm that the geometry is not the same? Threads on Paceline have wondered the same thing and there hasn't been a definitive answer. This is an online forum where we are supposed to be sharing knowledge, not random guesses.

Yes, I have observed it not working in person. This was not surprising because every review and article, and campagnolo, emphatically state that the cable pull is different and it absolutely will not work. It is a fact that it will not work, sorry.

[RyanH]

Yes, I have observed it not working in person.

That would have been useful information to include in your first post.

[RyanH]

My biggest problem with Ekar is its ridiculously high derailleur cage spring tension, and the additional friction it causes on the drivetrain. I'm thinking of making a custom spring with less tension to change it...

Having this is hand now, I agree. The housing for the spring is huge too. If you do this, please write it up.

[gwerziou]

Yes, I have observed it not working in person.

That would have been useful information to include in your first post.

Most reasonable persons 'would have' found my first post completely fine. Would haves and should haves are useless to any healthy conversation.

[RyanH]

Most reasonable persons 'would have' found my first post completely fine. Would haves and should haves are useless to any healthy conversation.

That's a fairly flawed statement. I don't know who you are and you have little to no credibility on this forum so to take a statement of it not working and expect someone to not inquire why you know that is a bit obtuse, no?

Your original statement saying that it did not work did not indicate how you knew this information. You could have been basing it off some spec sheet, inferring based off of what you have read or just throwing out a wild ass guess. Any inquisitive mind would ask for more information. So, unless your definition of a reasonable person is just an average person, then sure, they may take something at face value from a stranger but I doubt any intelligent, inquisitive person would...

[gorkypl]

Got an information from Absolute Black that they are on early design stages of oval Ekar rings. No ETA as of now.

[eurperg]

Having this is hand now, I agree. The housing for the spring is huge too. If you do this, please write it up.

I think there are three options to go ahead:

1. Trying different gauge steel wires and bending it over a mandrel with different amounts of active coils until the desired tension is achieved.
2. Grinding the the outer surface of the stock spring thinner to reduce the spring constant per 360 degrees until the desired tension is achieved.
3. Keeping the spring as it is, but adding additional spring holes to the jockey cage, to load it only 180° or 270° instead of 360°.

There are torsion spring load calculators that can be used to find out the spring constant (N-mm / 360°) when you type in the specs, but the stock spring is made of flat wire and I don't know how to get the readings from that.

Compared to my MTB with a XX1 drivetrain, Ekar drivetrain requires noticeably more force to turn the cranks backwards. If I ease the spring tension of Ekar derailleur by hand, the cranks turns with a lot less force. I think the spring tension of Ekar is way overkill if the spring is stiffer than what is being used in MTB derailleurs. And the design is bad compared to Shimano and Sram, because it pulls the cage constantly backwards too much, instead of just resisting the forward movement of the cage. I really don't know what is happening inside the clutch of Ekar derailleur because I think it relies on the spring so much. I also have a bike with Ultegra RX clutch derailleur, and it does not change the drivetrain friction if the clutch is on or off.

The image is taken from Campagnolo's jockey cage replacement document. Actually the spring hole is marked wrong in the image, but it can be seen.

[gorkypl]

That is quite disappointing. In the Cyclingtips article about clutched drivetrains friction, the ideal design is described as having infitinte clutch strength and very little spring tension pulling backwards. Can it be Campagnolo did it wrong?

[gwerziou]

Most reasonable persons 'would have' found my first post completely fine. Would haves and should haves are useless to any healthy conversation.

That's a fairly flawed statement. I don't know who you are and you have little to no credibility on this forum so to take a statement of it not working and expect someone to not inquire why you know that is a bit obtuse, no?

Your original statement saying that it did not work did not indicate how you knew this information. You could have been basing it off some spec sheet, inferring based off of what you have read or just throwing out a wild ass guess. Any inquisitive mind would ask for more information. So, unless your definition of a reasonable person is just an average person, then sure, they may take something at face value from a stranger but I doubt any intelligent, inquisitive person would...

You have been rude. To be clear, I don't know who you are either and you have no credibility with me. I still don't overstep the bounds of civil discourse. Your first response expressed a weird hostility, followed by a completely unecessary passive-aggressive dig with the second response. You are a moderator here; odd for a moderator to be so out of control... why start flaming your contributors? I am sorry that I took the time to engage with you. It won't happen again.

[gwerziou]

This is interesting: https://ingrid.bike/product/rear-derailleur-rd-12r/
Ingrid makes 1x rear derailleur models specifically adjusted to work with either Campy road or Ekar derailleurs, but - Ekar running on a 12 speed cassette?