critique my partial WW build?

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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gb123bike
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:02 am

by gb123bike

Hey WW peoples!

I'm planning up a moderately WW-ed gravel bike, and am looking for any obvious things I've missed. Some elements of this are already fixed: I'm getting a used frame+fork from a friend, and I've already got a crank en-route for a 1x10 setup, and I'm reusing my wheelset (1710g). By WW standards the frame is nothing to write home about, but it's OK... it amounts to about 1450g/3.2 lbs for the frame and 540g/1.2 for the fork. Good enough for me and I like the fit.

For the rest, I'm after bang-for-the-buck improvements to this list. My budget is limited, so I can't spring for botique items like $300 cassettes and stuff. Also, I'm going for metal over carbon on stems, posts, bars, etc, even though I know I could save weight with carbon. Here's my build list so far. All the weights are claimed: I don't have anything to measure.
  • RD: SRAM X01 long-cage (229g)
  • Shift: SRAM rival R shift, rival L brake-only (160+119g)
  • BB: Shimano (82g)
  • Headset: Cane Creek (115g)
  • Cassette: Sunrace CSMX3 11-46 (438g)
  • Chain: PYC (252g less what is trimmed)
  • Brakes: Spyres (420-ish F&R) EDIT: Juin Tech's, per recommendations below
  • Chainring: 36T (63g), with a 30T swap (38g)
  • Skewers: Neopro (72g F&R)
  • Rotors: Ashima AI2x2 (170g F&R inc bolts) Edit: beefier, rotors per recommendation.
  • Seatpost: Hylix alloy (220g less any trim) Edit: KCNC Scandium, per recommendation.
  • Bar: Ritchey WCS Logic 2, 40cm and 31.8mm, (233g)
  • Compression nut: Token Push-n-Turn (20g)
  • SPD Pedals: Zeray ZP-108S (260g)
  • Headset spacers: ebay carbon (whatever, not much)
  • Cages: Ibera Alloy x2 (58g)
  • Mirror: not sure, maybe 150g (i know... but I feel safer in traffic)
  • Saddle: Toseek Carbon (135g)
  • Tape: cork something ???
  • Shifter housing: ???
Nearest I can figure, I ought to get a sub-9.1 kg / 20lb build out of this inc pedals and tires, and maybe 10 kg / 22 lbs as ridden with a rack and some random **** like spare tubes and a seatbag.

Am I missing any low hanging fruit? I've never used these Zeray pedals and couldn't find a lot on the forum about them either. One thread had a guy who modded them for single-sided clip in and got to 220g, which is pretty light for a cheap SPD. I don't mind single-sided entry, so I might try that.

I dunno about that saddle, but for the price I can experiment. I'll take a weight penalty on the saddle to save me wee tender backside if I must, so I might end up using my current 300g saddle if I don't like the Chinese carbon one.
Last edited by gb123bike on Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

emotive
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by emotive

Consider some second hand carbon MTB wheels. Should be able to find something around 1500g for not a lot of money. Is the frame QR rather than Thru Axle? If so, look for wheels that have hubs with interchangeable end caps, such as DT Swiss, or Hope.

Rene Herse Extralight tyres are a big potential weight saver over other gravel tyres. What clearance do you have? What size tyres are you planning on running?

by Weenie


jemima
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:36 am
Location: Perth

by jemima

Stem: Kalloy Uno 7

Post: KCNC scandium

Caliper: Juin-Tech

Re the saddle, I had one of those. Too narrow for me. Like sitting on a tile.
Curve Grovel ti.

DJT21
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:35 pm

by DJT21

Go for Juin Tech brakes over the Sypres, I think they're a little bit lighter, but more importantly, they work better.

Don't bother with light weight rotors because performance is poor. Look at Formula rotors, they strike a good balance between weight and braking performance.

If the frame is 135mm/100mm axles, then don't use light skewers; get Shimano internal cam or similar.

gb123bike
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:02 am

by gb123bike

DJT21 wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:27 am
Go for Juin Tech brakes over the Sypres, I think they're a little bit lighter, but more importantly, they work better.
Thanks for this (and also to the above poster who reommended them too). I'd never even heard of them before, so they weren't on my radar. They sound good from the review I've just read. It said 142g/caliper which is a little less than the Spyres, and if they work better, awesome. Brakes are one area where I prioritize performance over weight. Stopping is kinda important :lol:
If the frame is 135mm/100mm axles, then don't use light skewers; get Shimano internal cam or similar.
Yep it is, I'll check those out, thanks.

gb123bike
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:02 am

by gb123bike

jemima wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:21 am
Post: KCNC scandium
Awesome. If those claimed weights are accurate, or even close, it's lighter than what I was looking at. It's more expensive too, but the savings is pretty good on a $/g basis.

EDIT: Will that clamp work with oval carbon rails on the Toseek saddle? I'm afraid it would cause troubles for the rails at the edge of the metal part that goes over the rail.
Re the saddle, I had one of those. Too narrow for me. Like sitting on a tile.
The one I'm looking at is 270x145 mm, which is almost exactly the size of my current saddle. But with saddles it's really hard to know without trying it for a while, whether it will work.

gb123bike
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:02 am

by gb123bike

emotive wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:05 am
Consider some second hand carbon MTB wheels. Should be able to find something around 1500g for not a lot of money.
1500g would be nice especially on rotating mass, but for budget reasons I probably have to use my current wheelset. It's not a bad wheelset though. It's AL, but it's pretty light and built with Stans Grail rims that can support high pressure narrow clinchers or larger 45mm gravel tubeless.
Rene Herse Extralight tyres are a big potential weight saver over other gravel tyres. What clearance do you have? What size tyres are you planning on running?
I can run up to 45's F&R. My current tires are 700c x 40's though and I run them tubeless. I also use 28mm slicks for city use at 80-90 PSI with tubes, so any rim I use has to support high pressures which some of the ultralight rims don't.

Those Rene Herse tires do look nice and are lighter than mine, although on the $$ side. I'll make a note of them, and when mine wear out maybe I'll replace with some of those.

joejack951
Posts: 746
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

gb123bike wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:35 pm
DJT21 wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:27 am
Go for Juin Tech brakes over the Sypres, I think they're a little bit lighter, but more importantly, they work better.
Thanks for this (and also to the above poster who reommended them too). I'd never even heard of them before, so they weren't on my radar. They sound good from the review I've just read. It said 142g/caliper which is a little less than the Spyres, and if they work better, awesome. Brakes are one area where I prioritize performance over weight. Stopping is kinda important :lol:
Biggest issue with Spyres in your case is trying to combine them with SRAM levers. The Spyre is designed to be used with Shimano SLR-EV brake levers which pull a lot more cable than SRAM (and Campy and older Shimano levers). You'd never be happy with the braking as a result of the levers constantly bottoming out. Juin Tech's get a lot of praise here but I've read plenty of negative reviews as well. Same can be said for TRP's HY/RD, though. The latter has worked well for me on my Campy disc road bike, albeit with a custom short pull arm to solve the same issue that the Spyre's have.

gb123bike
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:02 am

by gb123bike

joejack951 wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:21 pm
Biggest issue with Spyres in your case is trying to combine them with SRAM levers. The Spyre is designed to be used with Shimano SLR-EV brake levers which pull a lot more cable than SRAM (and Campy and older Shimano levers). You'd never be happy with the braking as a result of the levers constantly bottoming out.
Wow, that's good to know, thank you.

What I found for the Juin Tech's is they are "compatible with just about any groupset", so maybe they will be happy with the SRAM levers.

EDIT: searching, i found this thread, with a post from Mr Gib saying, "I use Sram levers with Juin Tech. Works great. Plenty of stoppin power." Also you posted earlier in the same thread saying the combo will work. So, I should be good to go with the SRAM+JuinTech combo.

Marin
Posts: 3583
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Road levers won't shift an X01 11x mech. If you are using an older 10s MTB mech, it won't shift a 46t cassette, mine didn't even manage 10-42.

Juin R1 are great, I used those with Sram mech road levers. No-compress housing is important.

gb123bike
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:02 am

by gb123bike

Marin wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:32 pm
Road levers won't shift an X01 11x mech. If you are using an older 10s MTB mech, it won't shift a 46t cassette, mine didn't even manage 10-42.
I'm going with 10 speed parts so the road levers can shift the RD.

It looks like you're right about the RD capacity though :cry: it's listed on another site as max 36T. Well that's a pisser! It's only the 11 speed RD that can shift up to 50, but those won't work with road levers.

Maybe I can use one of those RD hanger extensions? I'd really like to get at least a 42T on the back, and ideally 46.

EDIT 1: I found anecdotal evidence elsewhere on the intertubes about people using SRAM 10 speed RD's with WolfTooth RD extentions at least up to 42T. I don't know if that's the biggest that can work with the extender, but it's the biggest I could find a success anecdote for.

EDIT 2: It looks like SRAM also sells a "CX1" RD which is "Exact Actuation" and compatible with their 10 and 11 speed road levers. I could build the drivetrain around the 11 speed road shifters with that RD to get up to 42T, and with the WolfTooth extender, go even bigger, potentially up to 46T.

Marin
Posts: 3583
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

The hanger extension will work, you can even use a regular Wifli road mech to shift up to 42t. You'll get less chain wrap on the smaller cogs which can become an issue once the cassette is worn.

The 1x11 road mechs (Apex 1, Rival 1, Force 1/CX1) will shift 10 and 11s cassettes up to 46t. I'm running 10-42 and 9-46 11x on these.

gb123bike
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:02 am

by gb123bike

Marin wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:33 pm
The 1x11 road mechs (Apex 1, Rival 1, Force 1/CX1) will shift 10 and 11s cassettes up to 46t. I'm running 10-42 and 9-46 11x on these.
Ooooh! Nice. That n-46 is my goal, if i can get to it. Would you mind saying exactly which RD you have (mode/cage len/10-or-11)? I'd like to maximize my chances of getting to a functional 46T with road shifters. Have you had any skipping problems with the 9T? My current bike sometimes skips on an 11, but I think it's because of my chain quick disconnect link. It skips when that link runs through the 11T, but it's OK on the 12T.

morrisond
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

I've Juin Tech's and Spyre's - with Campy levers - Get the Juin Tech's

by Weenie


gb123bike
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:02 am

by gb123bike

morrisond wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:17 pm
I've Juin Tech's and Spyre's - with Campy levers - Get the Juin Tech's
Yep, those have replaced the Spyres on my build list, thanks to this thread!

My major unknown at this point is the biggest cassette I can run with a SRAM X01 RD + extender, or if I should sell that and get a CX1 RD instead. I'm not even sure how to figure it out other than trial and error - buy a cassette, and if it's too big, buy the next smaller one. I'm pretty sure the total tooth capacity is enough on the long cage X01, but I don't know about the max size it can handle with the extender.

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