Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

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MichaelB
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Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by MichaelB »

OK, so here is what I understand of the potential issue :

Slate :
Head tube angle - Small 71 degree, and 71.5 degree on Med, Large & X-Large
Head tube length - 110mm for Small, 134mm for Medium, and 160mm for Large & X-Large
Trail - 69mm for Small, and 66mm on Med, Large & X-Large

Scalpel Si :
Head tube angle - 69.5 degrees for all sizes - XS to XL
Head tube length - 97mm for X-Small & Small, 110mm for Medium, 122mm for Large, and 134mm for X-Large
Trail - 75mm for Small & X-Small, and 77mm on Medium, Large & X-Large

Is there an easy way of working out the impact on trail if a Scalpel fork is installed at a steeper headtube angle of 71.5 degrees ?

From my understanding, the trail of the ex-Scalpel Lefty would reduce trail if installed at a steeper angle ?

glepore
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Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by glepore »

http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/trailcalc.php

its not just the steeper angle, its also the fork offset. The ocho is 45 mm the oliver is 50 for the 27.5 fork.

Another factor to consider is axle to crown length - it affects the overall rake of the bike. The pbr that I'm using is 500mm. The stock fork (in my case the rigid fork) is 415.

While the trail difference is noticable, its not horrible. Neither is the now higher bottom bracket, while i'm in the saddle. Out of the saddle, though, its not great.

The shortest axle to crown on the ocho is 490 mm...

This gets complicated.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

tonytourist
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Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by tonytourist »

You should look into Efiflap's build:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=136912

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eliflap-scalpel
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Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by eliflap-scalpel »

and i did a chinese cyclocross frame too , in the Slate-way-of-life

https://eliflap.it/2018/03/19/ltk-gravel-7170g/
http://eliflap.it/

MichaelB
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by MichaelB »

glepore wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:31 pm
http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/trailcalc.php

its not just the steeper angle, its also the fork offset. The ocho is 45 mm the oliver is 50 for the 27.5 fork.

Another factor to consider is axle to crown length - it affects the overall rake of the bike. The pbr that I'm using is 500mm. The stock fork (in my case the rigid fork) is 415.

While the trail difference is noticable, its not horrible. Neither is the now higher bottom bracket, while i'm in the saddle. Out of the saddle, though, its not great.

The shortest axle to crown on the ocho is 490 mm...

This gets complicated.
Many thanks for the additional data - it is indeed getting complicated !! :unbelievable: I'll still look though and not giving up yet.

I've seen some of Eliflap's great work, but sadly I don't have his budget !! Or one of the things I'd look at doing is getting the Slate Oliver Travel extension by 88+ , but at Euro285 (+shipping from Aus), it's a bit too expensive, hence thinking of a different fork - but that then created all sorts of other issues like clamp spacing, HT angle & length, trail etc, etc etc.
:?

If I had to choose one preference over another - slightly more suspension travel would be it.

I noted from some other googling, that the Lefty Speed w/DLR from 2010 came in 137.6mm & 163mm headtubes, so it may even be worth hunting down one of those and see if it's a direct fit as a trial ? If it doesn't work, just resell it ?

Hmmmm :noidea: Now to try and find one (saw on with the 137mm size ....)

Thanks for all the advice, keep it coming !! :thumbup:

MichaelB
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by MichaelB »

And just found one with what looks like to be the right size headtube !!

Hmm, much more thinking required !!

MichaelB
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Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by MichaelB »

:oops: Double Post !

glepore
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Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by glepore »

After running down the numbers, i decided to run more sag in my pbr-I had been running more air than recommended to stiffen it, but really its not necessary, given the lockout is so easy. It really improved the handling of the bike, bringing the geo more in line with stock.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

MichaelB
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by MichaelB »

glepore wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:08 pm
After running down the numbers, i decided to run more sag in my pbr-I had been running more air than recommended to stiffen it, but really its not necessary, given the lockout is so easy. It really improved the handling of the bike, bringing the geo more in line with stock.
So what setup do you have ?

I've found a 2010 Speed w/DLR in 80mm travel, but it's a 29er (right clamp spacing).

Price is right, but from what I understand, the A2C dimension is 30-60mm higher (getting a measurement from the seller and will measure my Oliver).

Plan is to install it on the Slate as a trial, and see how the extra travel works, even if it isn't ideal.

Can always sell it or keep it for the Ti version.

glepore
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Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by glepore »

i'm running a 110mm clamp PBR. It has an a/c of 85 mm than the stock fork, and is a 50mm offset. Running it at 65 psi. I float between 135 - 140 lbs these days.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

MichaelB
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by MichaelB »

So glepore, you found the extra a2c of the PBR, you found no issues ?

So the extra 60 that I'm looking at should be just as good ?

If that's the case, I could be on to a winner :-)

I looked but couldn't work out which fork version you had (year, model and carbon/alloy) ?

glepore
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Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by glepore »

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:12 am
So glepore, you found the extra a2c of the PBR, you found no issues ?

So the extra 60 that I'm looking at should be just as good ?

If that's the case, I could be on to a winner :-)

I looked but couldn't work out which fork version you had (year, model and carbon/alloy) ?
Alloy, year-i'm guessing 2016 or so, it was nib, and its a 120/27.5. Its super heavy. It was cheap, which is why its on the bike. I might go with something lighter and with less travel if I trip across it.
As to no issues? The handling of the bike does change a bit. It steers more quickly. The bb is a little higher. It can be a bit disconcerting standing up but I've adapted. Its not necessarily for everyone. But for where I use the bike-mountain gravel, mostly-I like more than 30mm of travel. I also have a vcls style seatpost to help balance out the front/rear feel. So - yes, there are issues, but for me not insurmountable.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

MichaelB
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by MichaelB »

Cheers, sounds like my plan should then work well.

The one I'm looking at is (I think, as that's what it looks like) is a 2010-ish Speed Alloy w/DLR and 80mm travel 29er.

The thing that apparently makes it NOT a 2010 Alloy Speed is the 5.5" clamp spacing. So still a bit confused.

I've seen some feedback that the older booster forks work better and have much easier serviceability and parts, so if the price is right, I'll experiment.

MichaelB
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by MichaelB »

MichaelB wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:05 am
Cheers, sounds like my plan should then work well.

The one I'm looking at is (I think, as that's what it looks like) is a 2010-ish Speed Alloy w/DLR and 80mm travel 29er.

The thing that apparently makes it NOT a 2010 Alloy Speed is the 5.5" clamp spacing. So still a bit confused.

I've seen some feedback that the older booster forks work better and have much easier serviceability and parts, so if the price is right, I'll experiment.
So it turns out that whilst focussing on travel and model details, completely overlooked that 5.5" does NOT = 160mm :roll: :oops:

But, the Speed Carbon versions came in the 160mm (6.3") clamp spacing, but they are as rare as rocking horse poo, being only on certain XL frames in 2010-2012.

So the interim plan doesn't work (unless I can find one) and the custom frame will need to be a 137 or 122mm headtube. :?

MichaelB
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

Re: Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Post by MichaelB »

Time for a bit of an update ;

Have been madly busy with finishing up work for the end of the year (a day and a 1/2 to go 8) ) and doing all the fencing and regulation compliance to get a 4.5m x 2.3m swim spa installed in the backyard (final inspection today !!), so ready to start riding again, but today is the 3rd of 4 days with maximum temps over 40 degrees C . Ouch !!

Just missed out on a virtually unused RZ 120 that had the XL Lefty (that could have fitted on the Slate as a trial :x ), but that's life.

I'm awaiting final shipping costs for this frame though and see if I can stitch up a cracking deal on this Rewel Ti Frame that is built for a Lefty fork and is BNIB (2015 made), but may be a tad big.
MNew, the Rewel frame sells for 2,000 Euro, but may be able to get this landed here in Aus for much less. Fingers crossed. If so, it solves one of the issues (tyre clearance), but the BB is still pressfit :? , but I can live with that.


Image

Image

As a side by side comparison ;

Seat Tube Length : Slate - 494mm / Rewel - 520mm
TT Horizontal : Slate - 570mm / Rewel - 610mm
TT Actual : Slate - 550mm / Rewel - 587mm
Head Tube Angle : Slate - 71.5 deg / Rewel - 71.0 deg
Seat Tube Angle : Slate - 73.5 deg / Rewel - 73.0 deg
Head Tube Length : Slate - 160mm / Rewel - 140mm (prob actually 137)
Chain Stay Length : Slate - 405mm / Rewel - 425mm
BB Height : Slate - 275mm / Rewel - 300mm


If anyopne has a Lefty to fit, let me know and lets see if I can do a deal :D

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