Ti "Slate Mk2" frame time - help !

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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MichaelB
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

by MichaelB

Hi all,

Have been riding a Cannondale Slate for the past 12 months (~ 1,250km) and love it to bits. It suits most of the roads/trails that I have accessible around me here in Adelaide - road (to get to the gravel), smoth/hard packed gravel roads/fire access tracks, rougher/deteriorated fire tracks with lotsa rocks, and a fair smattering of single track that varies from hard packed/smooth clay to quite rocky and choppy.

Anyway, as msv found out a while ago, replacement frames can be hard to come by, and I just missed out on a dela of a lifetime with a NoS frame going for the measely sum of A$370. Mumble, fark, bugger etc.

Anyway, saw a facebook post in the Lfety group of a Ti Lefty frame made by Waltly Ti in China. And that got me to thinking.

How about I get a Ti Slate Mk 2 frame made up :D . Copy all the good stuff and fix up the things that Cannondale got wrong in the initial design.

I've sourced the geometry charts and will soon set about measuring things up a bit to get an idea of tube sizes, and the only two things atmthat I can think of that need to be chnaged in the Mk2 are ;

Damned BB30a - chnage to std BSA or T47 ?
Rear chainstay width - clearance fopr 50mm tyres

Anyone with anything else ?

The 50mm tyres are probably the biggest I'll go, as full on MTB sizes are not going to make that much difference, but there are plenty of options in the 42 to 50mm range without going overboard in terms of weight.

Currently ride the Large frame with a 110mm stem.

Bring on suggestions in terms of tube sizes/wall thickness and any other specific features that you think the Slate Mk2 should have.

Cheers

Michael

by Weenie


msv
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:02 am
Location: Irvine, CA

by msv

Sounds like it would be very cool. Really the only thing that I would think of as a "must have" change is the ability to fit the larger tires in the rear. With the way the whole "gravel" market has gone 650B x 47mm seems common, but if you're going to do it, having clearance for 2.1" MTB would be great. Almost certainly, the chainstay length will need to increase for this.

I don't have the same level of hate of the BB30 as most people as generally I've been able to make it work. However, for a new frame, absolutely go threaded. I think BSA is good enough, the T47 bottom brackets are all very expensive. As long as you can get a Shimano or SRAM DUB, I think that is good enough, and you can do that with conventional BSA. And the BB's are $15-$35 and readily available.

MichaelB
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

by MichaelB

Cheers. The BB will be based around my current crank (SISL2 with Quarq PM) so will need to accomodate that.
Spending a bit more on a good BB isn’t an issue (the frame won’t be cheap due to rubbish exchange rates) and the bearings can be replaced easily.

What length do you think the chain stays will need to increase to ? Closer to 420mm ?

msv
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:02 am
Location: Irvine, CA

by msv

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:55 pm
What length do you think the chain stays will need to increase to ? Closer to 420mm ?
Not nearly that long, provided you are still talking 650B, which you will need of course to still work with the Lefty Oliver. However, staying relatively short would require a dropped chainstay in order to still clear the chainset. If that isn't possible, you may need to go quite long in order to get everything to fit.

MichaelB
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

by MichaelB

Cheers. Yes, staying with 650B for sure.

Have some of the key details on hand now, just need to measure the existing tube sizes and see what impact the 50mm wide rear tyres has on required chain stay length.

I like the idea of a threaded BB, but need to work out the geometries and current alignment with the std BB30A.

morrisond
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:55 pm
Cheers. The BB will be based around my current crank (SISL2 with Quarq PM) so will need to accomodate that.
Spending a bit more on a good BB isn’t an issue (the frame won’t be cheap due to rubbish exchange rates) and the bearings can be replaced easily.

What length do you think the chain stays will need to increase to ? Closer to 420mm ?
Then you will need to stick with T47 I believe - It's difficult(I think impossible) to get SiSL2 to work with BSA unless the bearings are really small.

AZR3
Posts: 842
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: Az USA

by AZR3

morrisond wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:48 pm
MichaelB wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:55 pm
Cheers. The BB will be based around my current crank (SISL2 with Quarq PM) so will need to accomodate that.
Spending a bit more on a good BB isn’t an issue (the frame won’t be cheap due to rubbish exchange rates) and the bearings can be replaced easily.

What length do you think the chain stays will need to increase to ? Closer to 420mm ?
Then you will need to stick with T47 I believe - It's difficult(I think impossible) to get SiSL2 to work with BSA unless the bearings are really small.
You can get a BSA30 bottom bracket, that how I ran my Rotor 3D+ cranks for years. The issue with SiSL2 will be chainline and wide Q factor

MichaelB
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

by MichaelB

Thanks morrisond & AZR3 - the added Q factor may be an issue, so may just stick with the BB30a format.

Initial thought was to use outboard bearings with a longer spindle, but then the Q factor and ring offset becomes an issue.

Once I measure the centrelines I may get a better idea of what I could/couldn't easily do.

Thanks

martlet570
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:16 am

by martlet570

MichaelB wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:17 am
Thanks morrisond & AZR3 - the added Q factor may be an issue, so may just stick with the BB30a format.

Initial thought was to use outboard bearings with a longer spindle, but then the Q factor and ring offset becomes an issue.

Once I measure the centrelines I may get a better idea of what I could/couldn't easily do.

Thanks

T47 with the appropriate c-bear bb would fit your sisl2s with the normal Q factor and chainline. I guess other manufacturers should have some appropriate BBs but not sure who they would be. It’s basically a T47 to BB30 with inboard bearings.

glepore
Posts: 1239
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

I love my slate. But Oliver's are ridiculously expensive compared to other cdale leftys. I'm running a pbr, despite the slight geo change. I'd love to have a ti frame with a headtube angle that was correct for the mtb forks that are more available.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

MichaelB
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

by MichaelB

I hear yiou glepore. Since doing a bit more searching (and looking at options to get a bit more suspension travel), I've since discovered that the Slate is the only model where the headtube is > 134mm (give or take a few mm).

This means the Ti Slate woiuld have tpo have the MTB headtube length, and this means either 122mm or less (there are some bargains at 97mm !!).

Still too busy atm to actually measure and work out the frame dimensions, but the T47 BB seems the go.

Still working out what to do re the front fork ....

glepore
Posts: 1239
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

Slate headtubes are size dependant. Mine is 120 (small slate).

The offset is a bit different with the mtb forks leading to less trail. Its rideable but requires adjustment.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

MichaelB
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

by MichaelB

My Slate is a Large, so headtube is 160mm.

The original; plan was to transfer all the current running gear over, but with the knowledge of the headtube size, that paints me into abit of a corner re replacing the Oliver if it ever fails.

In all my looking, I've seen 1 (as a separate unit) that is the right size.

Hmmmmm

glepore
Posts: 1239
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

There's one on ebay now at a bid of under 300 bucks. I made an offer before i realized the size and had to cancel.

Personally, if I was having something custom done, I'd have it set up with a headtube and angle to take one of the more standard mtb lefty's. There is a weight penalty, but its not huge. The mtb forks have less inherent damping, but they're widely adjusable with pressure.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

glepore
Posts: 1239
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

Have an inquiry out as to whether a 50deg Ocho would work.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

by Weenie


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