Gravel tire rolling resistance tested

[MikeD]

IMO, when you are riding offroad, pure rolling resistance (from flexing sidewalls and tread) matter little. Things like traction, control, and ride comfort matter much more. On pavement or riding on smooth dirt roads is different and slick treaded tires work much better.

[spartacus]

Is there any explanation as to why BRR prodtocls consistently have lower Crr for MTB tires vs Gravel tires?
I am seriously considering MTB tires (RaceKing ProTection) instead of Gravel tires (Pirelli Cinturato Gravel H).

I have the race kings and used to have thunder burts. They seem to roll at least as fast as a typical gravel tire on pavement. Probably not as fast as a smaller slick like a gravel king but I'm not sure. People saying rr doesn't matter off road are wrong, it feels like you can go way faster - I've been through this on the MTB with heavy slow maxxis tires going to fast schwalbe tires the difference is real and noticeable. MTB racing tires have been in development far longer than gravel tires so maybe it's not surprising that the fastest xc tires are a little faster than the fastest gravel tires.

[Marin]

I agree, rolling resistance matters a lot on most gravel roads - way more than grip and traction.

[tritiltheend]

It's clear on pavement that the Conti has lower rolling resistance, but once I'm off road the WTB tire is clearly faster

How do you know this?

Not all differences between tires are subtle enough you need specialized equipment and testing. I ride faster and with more confidence off road with the wider WTB tires, it's not even close. Now to be clear, my terrain is fairly rough and really often is more easy MTB terrain than smooth dirt roads. It would be harder to tell the diffference on very smooth gravel but on anything with any rocks or roots, or washboard, the wider tire at lower pressure is faster, hands down. As for pavement, the difference is mostly noticeable on uphill sections where aerodynamics are not much of a factor, I work harder and the bike feels slower and heavier on the hills with the WTB tires. And don't tell me it's the extra half pound of weight of those tires, that's barely more than a quarter of a percent of the total weight I'm pushing up the hills.

[youngs_modulus]

Ah! So you're guessing, then. Thanks for coming clean.

Pro tip: human beings are terrible data acquisition devices.

Even better tip from one Richard Feynman, a physicist of some repute: “The first principle [of science] is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool.”

[Marin]

It's ok to like wider, more robust tires though - I do too.

Anecdote: A friend bought a set of superlight Zipp carbon wheels and put Tufo tubulars on. He really likes them and thinks they are fast.

I help him with tech problems, and when I had the bike here I did my indoor car park rolldown: Gravelking 35mm at 2.5 bar roll a few meters farther than the 25mm Tufos at 6.5bar...

[MikeD]

It's clear on pavement that the Conti has lower rolling resistance, but once I'm off road the WTB tire is clearly faster

How do you know this?

Not all differences between tires are subtle enough you need specialized equipment and testing. I ride faster and with more confidence off road with the wider WTB tires, it's not even close. Now to be clear, my terrain is fairly rough and really often is more easy MTB terrain than smooth dirt roads. It would be harder to tell the diffference on very smooth gravel but on anything with any rocks or roots, or washboard, the wider tire at lower pressure is faster, hands down. As for pavement, the difference is mostly noticeable on uphill sections where aerodynamics are not much of a factor, I work harder and the bike feels slower and heavier on the hills with the WTB tires. And don't tell me it's the extra half pound of weight of those tires, that's barely more than a quarter of a percent of the total weight I'm pushing up the hills.

That was my point. Who gives a s@$t about rolling resistance when you're slipping and sliding all over the place and you are slow in corners and on downhills because the tires have no grip in the dirt. That was my issue when mountain bike slicks came out, which was the equivalent of riding tires with worn out tread. Obviously faster on hard pack but slower when traction and control were needed. The way to beat this somewhat is by using lower rolling resistance tires (less aggressive tread) in a wider width and lower pressure.

[Cycliste]

So is it safe to say Schwalbe G-One Bite's roll faster than Maxxis Ramblers? I've had great experience with Maxxis Ramblers but if I could get more grip AND more speed out of a tire like the G-One Bite I'll take it!

[Singular]

It's clear on pavement that the Conti has lower rolling resistance, but once I'm off road the WTB tire is clearly faster

How do you know this?

Not all differences between tires are subtle enough you need specialized equipment and testing. I ride faster and with more confidence off road with the wider WTB tires, it's not even close. Now to be clear, my terrain is fairly rough and really often is more easy MTB terrain than smooth dirt roads. It would be harder to tell the diffference on very smooth gravel but on anything with any rocks or roots, or washboard, the wider tire at lower pressure is faster, hands down. As for pavement, the difference is mostly noticeable on uphill sections where aerodynamics are not much of a factor, I work harder and the bike feels slower and heavier on the hills with the WTB tires. And don't tell me it's the extra half pound of weight of those tires, that's barely more than a quarter of a percent of the total weight I'm pushing up the hills.

That was my point. Who gives a s@$t about rolling resistance when you're slipping and sliding all over the place and you are slow in corners and on downhills because the tires have no grip in the dirt. That was my issue when mountain bike slicks came out, which was the equivalent of riding tires with worn out tread. Obviously faster on hard pack but slower when traction and control were needed. The way to beat this somewhat is by using lower rolling resistance tires (less aggressive tread) in a wider width and lower pressure.

For recreational riding, training and adventure I'd err on the "too much tread" side anytime, but if one is looking at a race/event situation the opposite is often my choice. Given the "yeah, but what's faster in total?"-approach I often resort to slicks even for gravel racing. The time that is made up by running a lower RR tyre as opposed to one that is slower (as an example - a Gravelking Slick and SK) for a multi-hour event means that you would theoretically be able to get off your bike and walk the tricky corners and downhills and still have time to spare. With that said, that's also depending on you being disciplined enough to stay fresh and not push too far beyond the limits of the tyre too often and ending up crashing and/or flatting.

The above approach I learned from CX, looking at the time in total and not staring at sandpits and mudholes for tyre choice.

[tritiltheend]

Ah! So you're guessing, then. Thanks for coming clean.

Pro tip: human beings are terrible data acquisition devices.

Even better tip from one Richard Feynman, a physicist of some repute: “The first principle [of science] is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool.”

Well, missed your somewhat snarky response as I don't get on here that often. First, I am comparing 45mm wide tires with a significantly more aggressive tread at lower pressure, to 40mm tires with much smaller tread, and if you think any noticeable offroad performance difference between the tires is purely "fooling myself" then I'm afraid I can't help you. You really think one can't make educated observations about significantly different-sized and -treaded tires at different pressures ridden offroad?

Your point is more fair about rolling resistance. I'm quite aware of all the factors that can fool one about comparing rolling resistance. But the Terra Speed objectively is one of the very fastest rolling gravel tires as verified by Bicycle Rolling Resistance and others. They haven't tested the Resolute but no WTB tire has done nearly as well in their testing. Some others have tested the Resolute and it fared reasonably well but didn't appear to be in the same class as the TS. If BRR ever tests it I'll be shocked if it doesn't roll slower than the Terra Speed, and given it's a heavier tire with larger knobs that is in line with what would be reasonably expected. I would not be able to make any kind of reasonable judgement just riding around on flats and downhills but if my bike feels objectively slower and heavier going up a hill, where aerodynamics are much less in play, and the added weight from the tires is only half a pound, I think it's a reasonable call to feel that the WTBs likely roll slower. Here on weight weenies folks might tend to ascribe the slower climbing to the heavier tires but I know there is no way you are going to feel a half pound difference. You are correct that my rolling resistance observations of the two tires are purely subjective and not scientific, but my subjective observations are also in line with all the other info that's out there. Just last week I did a 60 mile ride that was half paved, half very smooth gravel on the WTB tires, I got it done fine but I definitely was wishing I had swapped to the Terra Speeds for that ride... but I guess you think that observation is "fooling myself".

I actually have done rolling resistance testing of road tires on rollers using a power meter and came up with results that were in line with that done by other folks such as Tom Ahnalt. I would never presume to be able to judge those road tires from my outside riding experience, I felt my subjective observations of the slower tires tended to match the objective testing but many were too close to call. Offroad tires have much, much larger differences in rolling resistance and although I've never tested these two gravel tires on the rollers, as far as I'm concerned it would be a waste of my time to do it based on my subjective observations and the accumulated evidence that's out there.

You are of course, welcome to disagree.

[henau212]

New G-One for racing. Curious on how the rolling resistance is..
https://cyclingtips.com/2021/06/schwalb ... vel-tyres/

[Marin]

New G-One for racing. Curious on how the rolling resistance is..
https://cyclingtips.com/2021/06/schwalb ... vel-tyres/

I'd have preferred a Speed or Allround tread pattern on the Super Race casing, this one looks like it will be gone in 2 weeks of riding...

[Marin]

Strada Biance Pro is fastest tested gravel tire on BRR: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... el-reviews

[renoracing]

The "butt dyno" has told me that the Strada Handmade TLR's were pretty special, and this recent review of them certainly verifies that. I've put them through some really rough routes, and had no issues with them, aside from the lack of traction up front, but that was to be expected. On pavement it really doesn't feel like you're giving up much over some 28mm Gp5000's or similar.... they're that good.

In regards to some of the conversation a few posts above... With a pretty rough gravel race on the calendar for me in a few weeks, I was looking at my options for a knobbier tire than the 40c Terra Speed's that I ran this past weekend for a flat and smooth gravel race(116mi, 6500'... 2nd place) and just couldn't get over how heavy the 42-45mm options were. I'm on the Hakka MX, so I can clear a Riddler 45c or similar, and was tempted by the Maxxis Rambler 45c's but couldn't track down any rolling resistance data, and was concerned that they wouldn't have the grip I want for the rougher forest service roads. After really analyzing the profile of the course for this race(90mi, 9500') and seeing that the last 15 miles are all down hill, with some sustained 6% switchbacks, I made the call to pull the trigger on a 650b wheelset and tire setup. Even if I gain a little weight on the climbs, I can easily make up minutes on the descents with a true MTB tire.
I went with the Prime Kanza Carbon 650b's. At under 1600grams I'm not adding more than 100grams to my 700c setup there. And then tire wise I went with the Schwalbe Racing Ralph 27.5x2.10 in the Pacestar TL, partially as they were on clearance for $20!!! They weigh less than nearly any of the 42mm gravel tires out there(520g), and will certainly give me way more grip... On top of that, they'll have a lower rolling resistance.
It certainly seems counter productive to go so aggressive looking of a tire, but the numbers don't lie.

[zmjones]

The "butt dyno" has told me that the Strada Handmade TLR's were pretty special, and this recent review of them certainly verifies that. I've put them through some really rough routes, and had no issues with them, aside from the lack of traction up front, but that was to be expected. On pavement it really doesn't feel like you're giving up much over some 28mm Gp5000's or similar.... they're that good.

In regards to some of the conversation a few posts above... With a pretty rough gravel race on the calendar for me in a few weeks, I was looking at my options for a knobbier tire than the 40c Terra Speed's that I ran this past weekend for a flat and smooth gravel race(116mi, 6500'... 2nd place) and just couldn't get over how heavy the 42-45mm options were. I'm on the Hakka MX, so I can clear a Riddler 45c or similar, and was tempted by the Maxxis Rambler 45c's but couldn't track down any rolling resistance data, and was concerned that they wouldn't have the grip I want for the rougher forest service roads. After really analyzing the profile of the course for this race(90mi, 9500') and seeing that the last 15 miles are all down hill, with some sustained 6% switchbacks, I made the call to pull the trigger on a 650b wheelset and tire setup. Even if I gain a little weight on the climbs, I can easily make up minutes on the descents with a true MTB tire.
I went with the Prime Kanza Carbon 650b's. At under 1600grams I'm not adding more than 100grams to my 700c setup there. And then tire wise I went with the Schwalbe Racing Ralph 27.5x2.10 in the Pacestar TL, partially as they were on clearance for $20!!! They weigh less than nearly any of the 42mm gravel tires out there(520g), and will certainly give me way more grip... On top of that, they'll have a lower rolling resistance.
It certainly seems counter productive to go so aggressive looking of a tire, but the numbers don't lie.

agree with your choice. i would recommend the conti race king/speed king front/rear combo if you can clear it. obscenely fast.