Cannondale Topstone 105 (23lbs?!) vs Canyon Grail AL7 vs

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

Evening Guys,

Torn between the two above, i'm after a gravel bike with wide tyre clearance, bolt thru axles, Shimano 105 for good gear range in the peaks, and modern offroad geometry.

I'd like the above whilst keeping it as light as possible and around £1500 budget! :shock: :D


https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/grail ... l-7-0.html

https://www.cannondale.com/Internationa ... 51f893d6c1


The Topstone wins out on shorter TT, lower standover, longer more stable wheelbase, slacker head angle, so should be a more comfortable, better offroad ride.

Image



But from what i've read the Topstone 105 is coming in at 23lbs in large, not using the same refined aluminium as the older caadx

The Grail AL 7 20.7lbs in medium (not been able to find a large weight)

I'm overlooking the better geo of the Topstone and thinking the grail would be a better choice as lighter, the Topstone sounds awfully heavy at 23lbs, when my full sus Scott Spark 700 is around 26lbs.

Any thoughts, other bikes to look at around this budget, will a 23lbs topstone go like a whippet uphill anyway thanks to its 700cc skinny wheels/tyres, is 23lbs bloaty for a gravelbike? :D

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silvalis
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Aus

by silvalis

You'd be better of comparing the medium grail to the large topstone.
Chasse patate

by Weenie


frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

Morning Silvalis,

I'm 6'2" so medium grail would be too small

renoracing
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:48 am

by renoracing

So wait, You like the Topstone because it fits smaller than the size Large Canyon, but you think that sizing down to the Medium Canyon(which measures almost the same as the Topstone Large) is too small? I think you might just be hung up on the common idea that at over 6 feet tall a "medium" is too small. I think you might need to take Silvalis' advice and compare the numbers of the Medium Grail and you might not have to pick fit versus weight....

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

I'm just going off the manufacturers reccomended size for height which was L to XL on Grail, never considered a M Grail would be a goer as im' XL in Santa Cruz and Scott.

Something to look at thanks :)

renoracing
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:48 am

by renoracing

Manufacturer's height charts tend to be pretty antiquated and are very subjective... Like the old bike shop trick where they have you stand over the bike and lift the handlebars up. If the front wheel gets 1" off the ground before the toptube hits your crotch, the bike "fits"!
If you know what certain numbers feel like on a bike(as far as stack, reach, etc), which it sounds like you do, then just ignore the height chart, and compare the numbers. There are also several sites where you can visualize two bike's geometry overlayed to see where the contact points differ or overlap. With all that said, Canyons tend to run long and large for their size, and most seem to downsize one size from other brands from what I've seen.

renoracing
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:48 am

by renoracing

Manufacturer's height charts tend to be pretty antiquated and are very subjective... Like the old bike shop trick where they have you stand over the bike and lift the handlebars up. If the front wheel gets 1" off the ground before the toptube hits your crotch, the bike "fits"!
If you know what certain numbers feel like on a bike(as far as stack, reach, etc), which it sounds like you do, then just ignore the height chart, and compare the numbers. There are also several sites where you can visualize two bike's geometry overlayed to see where the contact points differ or overlap. With all that said, Canyons tend to run long and large for their size, and most seem to downsize one size from other brands from what I've seen.

TheKaiser
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

frogtape777 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:44 pm
I'm just going off the manufacturers reccomended size for height which was L to XL on Grail, never considered a M Grail would be a goer as im' XL in Santa Cruz and Scott.

Something to look at thanks :)
Yeah, I agree with Reno as to going by the geo numbers and ignoring the stated "size" and height chart figures. Body proportions (leg/torso ratio, arm length, etc...) can make a huge difference in terms of what is an appropriate fit, even for two people of identical height. Also, personal preference and flexibility are a big factor.

That said, you will want to make sure you can still easily hit your desired handlebar height if you are sizing down. Some brands reduce the Stack more than the Reach as the sizes go down, so you might find that the bar height is getting lower than you want, even if the reach is still adequatly long.

Seth
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:11 am

by Seth

renoracing wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:13 am
There are also several sites where you can visualize two bike's geometry overlayed to see where the contact points differ or overlap.
Can you point me to some of the sites you refer to above?

renoracing
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:48 am

by renoracing

https://99spokes.com
https://geometrygeeks.bike

Double check the numbers associated with them, as there are sometimes errors, but a good starting point none the less.

ChrisRides
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 2:54 am

by ChrisRides

Which bike did you end up getting? Im tossing up between the cannondale topstone 105, canyon grail 7.0, and the trek crockett 5.

Any preferences??

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

ChrisRides wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:44 pm
Which bike did you end up getting? Im tossing up between the cannondale topstone 105, canyon grail 7.0, and the trek crockett 5.

Any preferences??

Topstone and absolutely adore it, amazes me every ride :beerchug: :beerchug:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=154830

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Roel W
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:39 am
Location: Belgium

by Roel W

What bike did you choose?

Topstone has threaded BB, lots of bosses, nice welds, hydoformed tubes, heavy wheels,...
Canyon might be lighter but has ugly welds, straight extrusion tubes, single through-drilled rackbosses with welded shut insides (a measured drill from both sides looks way neater and is stronger), steeper gearing,...
CANYON Ultimate AL 2010
CANYON Ultimate CF SL 2014
CANYON Ultimate CF SL disc 2018
Instagram @roeleur

mr2scott
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:39 pm

by mr2scott

Changed a few more parts. 8.77 KG for 105 topstone, with bottle cages, and 43c tires.

Bontrager XXX bar/stem combo was like 230g 90mm/40cm
Fizik full carbon tundra saddle I found lying around was lighter than the fabric carbon I had.

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Stendhal
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Location: Silicon Valley

by Stendhal

Fixed.

Neff...
Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL6 (6.39 kg), Cervelo Aspero (7.87)
Retired: LOW// mki, Pinarello Dogma F10 \ F8, Lapierre Pulsium, TIME Fluidity, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2, R3, R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

by Weenie


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