Signs of 1x12 gravel groups?

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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by jever98

Just wondering if anybody has seen signs of a 1x12 gravel group on the horizon. The Rotor group will stay vaporware for a while, I guess, and haven't seen anything on the 12x Etap.
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by Weenie

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by ooo

It looks like Sram (unlike Campa) is waiting for Shimano decision on 12s road freehub design
there was expectations to find answer during shimano xtr 12 speed release
but Shimano introduced freehub that looks like mtb-only design

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by Marin

Sram already announced their 12x road XD-R freehub last year.

What makes you think Shimano won't use their MTB 12x freehub for road?

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by moyboy

12 is coming.... matter of time. Just like what happened with 11

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by ooo

Marin, new shimano microspline (HG+) mtb freehub body is even smaller than old hyperglide (HG) body:
3 sprockets located outside of freehub body width on top of the spokes (36-40-45 or 39-45-51)
9 sprockets located on top of freehub body (biggest sprocket 33T)

As we know from 11s road cassettes CS-HG700,CS-HG800, and new 12s mtb cassettes:
Shimano uses space outside of freehub body width (over spokes) for 34T+ sprockets

so, mtb microspline fits 9 sprockets with size <34T (32T) and 3 sprockets ≥34T (32T)
that means smallest cassette you can make is 10-40 (assuming 32T, not 34T limit):
10-11-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42 (like sram 10-42, with 10-11-12 instead of 10-12)
11-12-13-15-17-19-22-25-28-32-36-40 (like sram 11-36, plus 40T)
impossible to make 10T cassette with 13T (10-11-12-13-) or 11T cassette with 14T (with smaller sprockets on top)

If shimano wanted to use microsplines on the road - they will make some modifications (wider body)
shimano likes to have road and mtb parts incompatible
(for example, latest xtr rotor is advertised as incompatible with road disc)

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by FIJIGabe

Thanks for the analysis on this. I've been thinking of upgrading my road bike to 12-speed, but wasn't sure what Shimano would do with the freehub.
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by bm0p700f

if your going to put your road bike on 12 speed then that campagnolo record or super record then.

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by jlok

moyboy wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:53 pm
12 is coming.... matter of time. Just like what happened with 11
and people will just resist it like what happened with 11 :)
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by Lelandjt

Why 1x for gravel? I get it for MTB and CX but for gravel the only advantage I see is a slight drop in weight at the price of worse chainline and reduced range. This genre seems like it needs more range than anything besides tandem and due to the hours and distances I'd think chainline and efficiency would be priorities. For road I think 1x doesn't work for the same reasons but there you get the additional aero benefit and you don't need as much gear range.

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by spdntrxi

I will go 1x when they are up to 13 in the back (they is Shimano or SRAM)

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by mentok

Why not 1x for gravel? If i don't need an extra shifter, an extra cable to maintain, an extra derr to adjust, an extra ring that is never, ever getting used, etc, then why would I bother with it? I mean, i put ~400km a week into my 1x road commuter with 52t and an 11-42 out back. It's perfectly fine with everything I need (mostly flat, but I do a 2km 6-8% climb every day) and I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything. Same stands for gravel - I have 38t and 11-36 10sp out back and short of running out of gears at 50km/h it's fine. With both bikes I found that I would spend 90% of my time in the big ring and almost never need the granny so when the time came to replace rings and cables it made sense to just get rid of the stuff I wasn't using.

Everyone has their opinion though - my use case isn't yours, but just understand that absolutely yes there is a use case and a market for 1x on the road, on gravel, on mtb even if it's not something that you're interested in.

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by grover

12speed etap from SRAM is due early next year, red and force level, clutched derailleur. XDR freehub is already in the wild so assume a 10 tooth cog.

Word is the shifters will talk to the XX1 Eagle etap rear derailleur too so theoretically you could use a 10-50 cassette with that derailleur.

There's a patent application doing the rounds showing a crankset with (lack of a better word) 'yaw' spider that means the chainring always is in line with the chain (but the chain will still be coming off the cassette at an angle).

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by wilebreizhou

WvA riding 1x etap... 1x11 or 1x12??

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by ooo

Last edited by ooo on Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by TurboKoo

Was that the reason he had problems with gears and lost the race?
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