Cannondale TOPSTONE 2019 is released

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

DamonRinard wrote:
frogtape777 wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:30 am
Ah so a normal road rim/wheelet will be 6mm off but still work fine? Any spacers required etc?
Hi frogtape777,

That's right, no spacers or any kind of adapter required, just pop it in and go.

And 6 mm is nothing in front/rear wheel alignment. Chris Boardman's famous Olympic Lotus was 50 mm offset and it didn't seem to slow him down. :-)

Cheers,
Damon
I must be missing something... are you saying that, when traveling in a straight line, with the front wheel tracking perfectly along that line, that the rear wheel will be tracking 6mm to one side of that line? Cuz that would be weird.

Or are you simply talking about a change in the dish and offset, but both front and rear wheels are still centered in the frame and track the same line?
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yinzerniner
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

Calnago wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:36 pm
I must be missing something... are you saying that, when traveling in a straight line, with the front wheel tracking perfectly along that line, that the rear wheel will be tracking 6mm to one side of that line? Cuz that would be weird.

Or are you simply talking about a change in the dish and offset, but both front and rear wheels are still centered in the frame and track the same line?
The two wheels are in alignment, rather the drivetrain has been moved out 6mm.

So instead of a 142mm wide axle with the rim/wheel centered (ie 71mm to the NDS and 71mm to the DS) they've shifted to 65mm NDS and 77mm DS.

See vid here for better explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfLcSIHeZK8

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

Sigurd wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:20 pm
frogtape777 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:59 pm
Sigurd wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:25 am
frogtape777 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:44 am


Totally fine with the carbon steerer, better than some due to the fact there are no open cutouts to place excessive stress on one area.

80mm here and really changed the fit for me, (187cm tall) handling still wonderful, and the Ritchey quality beat another 4-5 stems I tried.

Image
Thanks for the quick reply, frogtape777!

Is the stack height about the same compared to the stock stem? I see you have removed one of the spacers below the stem. Is this necessary for installation, or just personal preference? Sorry for the noobness, but this will be my first stem change.
Hey Sigurd,

The Ritchey has a steerer height of 42mm
The cannondale stock AFAIR is 38mm

So the Ritchey sat too high originally and didn't leave enough gap for the headset to nip up.

So removed x1 cannondale 5mm spacer, and added a x1 1mm spacer, which along with the 4mm higher steerer height gave an identical stack height and a perfect nip up gap for the topcap.

PS The OCD in me should really replace that 1mm with a spacer of the same outer diameter as the rest, but not got round to it :oops: :lol:
Thanks! I guess I'll just remove 2x5mm spacers and replace them with 2x3mm spacers for a neat look. Do you need to untighten the headset expander to slide the spacers off?
I have some 3mm but they are even chunkier so look even worse than my 1mm :shock: :) :) If you find some matching outer diameter 3mm let me know brand!

Option 1:
You can undo just the bigger top cap hex and remove the top cap only, then slide off stem, remove spacers, re add and fit new stem. Then retorque top cap to 4-5nm, then line up stem and do up stem bolts.

Option 2: with a smaller allen key you can remove bung and adjust where it sits, so its exactly on bottom bolt of new stem, keep top cap on though, and use smaller allen when removing bung, otherwise the bung falls down the steerer and needs rescuing with a j-spoke!

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

DamonRinard wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:20 pm
frogtape777 wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:30 am
DamonRinard wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:40 am
Hi TobinHatesYou,
Yes, the road rim will be 6 mm off.
Nevertheless, it still works great.
Cheers,
Damon
Ah so a normal road rim/wheelet will be 6mm off but still work fine? Any spacers required etc?
Hi frogtape777,

That's right, no spacers or any kind of adapter required, just pop it in and go.

And 6 mm is nothing in front/rear wheel alignment. Chris Boardman's famous Olympic Lotus was 50 mm offset and it didn't seem to slow him down. :-)

Cheers,
Damon
Great cheers!

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Calnago
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

yinzerniner wrote:
Calnago wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:36 pm
I must be missing something... are you saying that, when traveling in a straight line, with the front wheel tracking perfectly along that line, that the rear wheel will be tracking 6mm to one side of that line? Cuz that would be weird.

Or are you simply talking about a change in the dish and offset, but both front and rear wheels are still centered in the frame and track the same line?
The two wheels are in alignment, rather the drivetrain has been moved out 6mm.

So instead of a 142mm wide axle with the rim/wheel centered (ie 71mm to the NDS and 71mm to the DS) they've shifted to 65mm NDS and 77mm DS.

See vid here for better explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfLcSIHeZK8
Ok, so that seems to be contradictory with what was said a bit ago, that you can just pop a normal wheel in there and ride off. Instead, you’d have to have an appropriate hub with longer axle to fit into the now ever wider distance between the dropouts, and the wheel would have to be redished to the non drive side by 6mm to be able to work. This certainly seems totally at odds with what Damon said about being able to just pop a normal wheel in there and off you go. Quite the contrary, unless I’m still missing something.
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mr2scott
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:39 pm

by mr2scott

Calnago wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:33 pm
yinzerniner wrote:
Calnago wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:36 pm
I must be missing something... are you saying that, when traveling in a straight line, with the front wheel tracking perfectly along that line, that the rear wheel will be tracking 6mm to one side of that line? Cuz that would be weird.

Or are you simply talking about a change in the dish and offset, but both front and rear wheels are still centered in the frame and track the same line?
The two wheels are in alignment, rather the drivetrain has been moved out 6mm.

So instead of a 142mm wide axle with the rim/wheel centered (ie 71mm to the NDS and 71mm to the DS) they've shifted to 65mm NDS and 77mm DS.

See vid here for better explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfLcSIHeZK8
Ok, so that seems to be contradictory with what was said a bit ago, that you can just pop a normal wheel in there and ride off. Instead, you’d have to have an appropriate hub with longer axle to fit into the now ever wider distance between the dropouts, and the wheel would have to be redished to the non drive side by 6mm to be able to work. This certainly seems totally at odds with what Damon said about being able to just pop a normal wheel in there and off you go. Quite the contrary, unless I’m still missing something.

The hub is normal 142x12mm, the only thing different is the rim is dished 6mm to the NDS. If you have the tire clearence you can just run it. If you want it to be straight, turn loosen the NDS 1 1/2 turn and tighten the DS 1 1/2 turns and that should get it pretty close to straight. Considering tons of people don't even notice when they have a broken spoke or 2, I doubt you can tell its 6mm out of line. I know mentally it would bother me anyway and I would just redish the wheel, which only takes me a few minutes, unless it's tubeless/internal nipple then I don't bother with that.

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

tomh79 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:29 pm
triteacher wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:49 pm
I went for the C‘dale Save2 carbon seatpost. At 182g pretty light and it performs great.
Also looked into some light bars but stuck with the original ones in the end. There are of course lighter options available, but the pricepoint kept me from going that way...
What's the difference between the SAVE2 and SAVE seatpost?

also...do you (or anybody) know the official setback and weight of the stock Topstone 105 seatpost (Cannondale C3, 6061 Alloy, 27.2 x 350mm.)?
-I'm guessing 1.5cm setback?!
-weight (google...) 300g?!

Thanks!!

352 grams! 25mm setback.

Image

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

Anyone elses rear formula hub give kickback? If I stop peddling suddenly and resting foot at 6 oclock I get a thud and clunk as hub catches up. Also side to side play? My rear wheel moves 3-4mm between the stays. I think the hubs shot in less than 6 months, with not a massive amount of riding.

Looking at these, want DT Swiss around 1600 grams for gravel tyres, any other options?


https://www.bike24.com/p2334116.html

tomh79
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:50 pm

by tomh79

frogtape777 wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:06 pm

352 grams! 25mm setback.
Thanks!!! Btw, I ended up with these (perfect for me)

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... -dicut-25/

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

tomh79 wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:27 pm
frogtape777 wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:06 pm

352 grams! 25mm setback.
Thanks!!! Btw, I ended up with these (perfect for me)

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... -dicut-25/

Thats the ones cheers! I knew i'd seen another DT Swiss topstone wheelset on WW.

Cross Road 1600 with Dicut lovely! What tyres are you running? and did you notice much benefit over stock wheels when riding?

I can only compare with Performance Race 1600 Dicuts but they have 28mm Gp5000 and like night and day, so looking forward to a lighter gravel wheelset now that doesn't have kickback and wonky play!

yinzerniner
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

Calnago wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:33 pm
Ok, so that seems to be contradictory with what was said a bit ago, that you can just pop a normal wheel in there and ride off. Instead, you’d have to have an appropriate hub with longer axle to fit into the now ever wider distance between the dropouts, and the wheel would have to be redished to the non drive side by 6mm to be able to work. This certainly seems totally at odds with what Damon said about being able to just pop a normal wheel in there and off you go. Quite the contrary, unless I’m still missing something.
What Damon said earlier isn't exactly true: you can't swap the rear wheel from a non-AI bike to an AI bike and have them work. You'll need to do a re-dish. I think his quote "That's right, no spacers or any kind of adapter required, just pop it in and go" mean't that you don't need spacers on the re-dished wheel, NOT that you can just swap one wheel between two bikes with different rear wheel alignments.

The wheel and hub are normal, but the dish is different. The re-dish amount is small enough for most wheel combos to not need new spokes when doing the re-dishing, but it can't be known for certain until the re-dish is started.

The axle width stays the same so the hub stays the same widh - 142mm on the Topstone. And the distance between the dropouts stays the same.

Discodan
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

Calnago wrote:
yinzerniner wrote:
Calnago wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:36 pm
I must be missing something... are you saying that, when traveling in a straight line, with the front wheel tracking perfectly along that line, that the rear wheel will be tracking 6mm to one side of that line? Cuz that would be weird.

Or are you simply talking about a change in the dish and offset, but both front and rear wheels are still centered in the frame and track the same line?
The two wheels are in alignment, rather the drivetrain has been moved out 6mm.

So instead of a 142mm wide axle with the rim/wheel centered (ie 71mm to the NDS and 71mm to the DS) they've shifted to 65mm NDS and 77mm DS.

See vid here for better explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfLcSIHeZK8
Ok, so that seems to be contradictory with what was said a bit ago, that you can just pop a normal wheel in there and ride off. Instead, you’d have to have an appropriate hub with longer axle to fit into the now ever wider distance between the dropouts, and the wheel would have to be redished to the non drive side by 6mm to be able to work. This certainly seems totally at odds with what Damon said about being able to just pop a normal wheel in there and off you go. Quite the contrary, unless I’m still missing something.
My understanding is:
- It’s a standard hub width, no special hub required, with the wheel dished 6mm to the left
- If you have more than 6mm tyre clearance, such as dropping in a road wheel set, you can then just put in an alternate wheel set and ride as was mentioned, but your wheel will be 6mm to the right of centre
- if the two contact points naturally align with the direction of travel, ie the rear contact point falls in behind the front contact point, the bike will then be at a slight angle. By my year 10 maths it will be at 0.34 degrees off straight, so small it would be impossible to notice


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yinzerniner
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

Discodan wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:17 pm
My understanding is:
- It’s a standard hub width, no special hub required, with the wheel dished 6mm to the left
- If you have more than 6mm tyre clearance, such as dropping in a road wheel set, you can then just put in an alternate wheel set and ride as was mentioned, but your wheel will be 6mm to the right of centre
- if the two contact points naturally align with the direction of travel, ie the rear contact point falls in behind the front contact point, the bike will then be at a slight angle. By my year 10 maths it will be at 0.34 degrees off straight, so small it would be impossible to notice


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Your understanding is correct, but missing one key point - the rear wheel will need to have 12mm smaller tire than what's originally specified for max clearance since you're losing the 6mm of space with the improperl dished wheel.

In other words, if you take a 700c rear wheel from a Diverge to use on the Topstone, then the max tire you'll be able to fit is a 30mm since it's rated for a 42mm wide tire. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the bike if the tire clearance ends up being roughly the same as a Supersix Disc.

MichaelB
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:31 am

by MichaelB

mr2scott wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:35 am
....The hub is normal 142x12mm, the only thing different is the rim is dished 6mm to the NDS. If you have the tire clearence you can just run it. If you want it to be straight, turn loosen the NDS 1 1/2 turn and tighten the DS 1 1/2 turns and that should get it pretty close to straight. ....
Did just that when I got a set of Stans wheels for my Slate at a bargain price. Just re-dished the rear as decribed above and bingo. :thumbup:

DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

Hi yinzerniner,

You understand it perfectly.

In the context of installing a road wheel as was mentioned above, the tire is much narrower and so no redishing is needed.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

by Weenie


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