SuperX wheels & tyres for road/light gravel

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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CarlosFerreiro
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by CarlosFerreiro

After some recurring injury issues I've picked up a 2017 SuperX 105 on sale, with the idea to move away from TTs and fast road focused rides to more mixed road & light gravel stuff, as well as rougher off road.
I have the stock wheelset that I'll use with 35-40mm tyres off road for now.
My plan was to get a second wheelset for the road/light end of things so any feedback on the 12mm through axle £300-£450 area would be a help.

Hunt wheels seem like one obvious choice. For a bit more I could get the Wheelsmith own brand stuff that looks good, and they would likely do the 6mm offset dishing needed for the SuperX. I really like the look of the discx Zondas, and loved them as rim brake wheels, but less sure if they are really a strong enough build for what I am looking for, as well as maybe not being so easy to re-dish correctly?

Tied in with that of course is the tyre choice. My first plan was 32mm file tread, so maybe looking at Clement Strada or Gravel King, but now I am wondering if 28mm Pro4 Endurance (which I have) or 28mm GP4000 would suit better. All terrain dependant of course, but any thoughts on how the 32mm tyres roll on road compared with those?
Local terrain means every ride of every kind would be a mixture of surfaces, so I'm aware that everything will be compromises.

edit: At the moment I'm not sure I'd necessarily go tubeless for this wheelset, but we'll see.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I got the tool of the cannondale to build wheels for the superX. I have done a few as well. Not sure if hunt will do this you'll have to ask them but a shop I sell wheels too came to me after most/all wheel brands they approached said no to redishing there wheels so that shop approached me for a wheelset.

Any wheels in principle can be redished to suit but for nearly all wheels it void the warranty. as hunt are the importer and distributor they may not have the ability to redish it themselves. At a guess redishing will void there warranty. A phone call will clarify though
Last edited by bm0p700f on Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


CarlosFerreiro
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by CarlosFerreiro

Cheers - I'd missed your BORG31 wheelset before, but it's right up there on my list now too.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

redishing a campag wheel will void warranty for sure. You'll have to ask derek about his wheels. He would probably do it.

CarlosFerreiro
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by CarlosFerreiro

Remembering the specialist nature of G3 wheel building mentioned here in the past by Graeme, the Zonda seems less and less of an option.
Strangely I had seen your 22 wheels but missed the 31s. In my defense, i have looked at a LOT of wheels in the past few days ;)

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

redishing a zonda will pull it out of round. Any of my wheels can set dished for the superX then again anything using off the shelf parts can if the wheelbuilder is willing to do it.

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Hellgate
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by Hellgate

Dishing and roundness are two different attributes.

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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

not with zonda's. when the wheel is properly tensioned it will be round. however if you redish the NDS spoke will have too much tension (higher than the DS) and the wheel will not be round. A untensioned zonda wheel is not round. I do this for a living you know.

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Hellgate
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by Hellgate

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. With good components, correct length spokes, and the right tension the wheel will come into dish and round. But regardless, dish and round are still two different attributes. And I did this for a living.

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stormur
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by stormur

bm0p700f wrote:not with zonda's. when the wheel is properly tensioned it will be round. however if you redish the NDS spoke will have too much tension (higher than the DS) and the wheel will not be round. A untensioned zonda wheel is not round. I do this for a living you know.


Any wheel properly tensioned will be round. Every not properly tensioned won't be round :mrgreen:

Proper "re-dish" is tightening spokes on one side and proportionally decreasing on other. As result you get SAME tensions as before if you do it properly.

However 6mm is a lot, and spoke length may be quiet incorrect for such manouver. G3 pattern require certain procedure for "rebuild", for anyone without this knowledge it's highly not recommended to touch it.


PS I know many people doing something "for a living" and doing it wrong; that's not an argument ;)
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

you need stormur to know more about campagnolo wheels. the G3 lacing pattern means campagnolo make there G3 no round so the tenion applied in the groups of three pull the rim into round. it is the unsupported span that means this is essential. If you have built as I have very low spoke count wheels you get a wave set up that is difficult to control hense extremely stiff rims are required. I used a 88mm deep rim for a 12 spoke wheel it was manageable on that and I have a stable wheelset (not one I would build for any one else though). A shallower conventional rim laced with the G3 pattern would have roundness and lateral trueness issues that vary from wheel to wheel.

To maintain consistency Campagnolo use the G3 pattern and an rim specifally made not to be round that becomes round when properly tensioned, unlike a conventional rim which has to be round to begin with and will still be round when tensioned. Correcting out of roundness on a conventional rim will lead to spoke tension variation (with modern rim fairly big tension changes are needed to correct even small deviation) and this leads to accelerated spoke fatigue.

The redish will change the bracing angles and therefore the tension balance so it is not true the tensions will remain the same after the redish as before.
On the last superX wheel I did with a rim ERD of 545mm and a Miche disc brake hub normal bracing angles would have 4.4/7.5 degrees. After the 6mm redish braing angles are 5.7/6.2 degrees. So yes the zonda wheel after redish would have higher NDS spoke tension than the DS. It is not true to say that any redish will have the same tensions as the wheel before. Any change in bracing angle alters the tension balance.

So stormur before passing judgement know more about what you writing. Also try not to cast judgement on people you have never met and the work they do.

CarlosFerreiro
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by CarlosFerreiro

Cheers folks - I think it's clear Zondas are not an option for this time.
Anybody with thoughts on the balance between "28mm road" Gp4000s/Pro4 Endurance and "30/32mm file tread" Challenge Strada Bianca, Gravel King or Clement Strada LGG?
If the use is mostly surfaced road with a little bit of minor gravel, does moving up from the 28s give up too much on road for what you gain off road?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

i used the challange tyres for a good while and they are the nicest clincher I have ever used. The conti in contrast puncture more often.

you should be going tubeless though there are good tubeless tyres with file thread or very shallow thread. Two I can think of are the IRC fusion X-guard 28mm and the IRC Serrac Sand tyre 32mm.

Tubes are for the dark ages. you have gone modern with disc brake now use better tyres. There are tubeless options but for off road use dont use the schwalbe pro one.

I ride my 2.0" MTB tyres on the road almost as quick as I can with my road bike. So going bigger does not slow you down much. it depends on the tyre though.

CarlosFerreiro
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by CarlosFerreiro

I'll give tubeless a go off road, but am reserving judgement for the road set up until I see how that goes.
With no flints or thorns locally, road punctures are like once a year at most, so my perception of pros/cons comes out different.

by Weenie


bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

tubeless is about alot more that reduced risk of a flat that will stop you. the lower pressures improve grip and comfort. rolling resistance is lower. So long as you use the right tyres there is no down side and I really mean that. There is far to much skeptism based on other people bad experience but when you hear what they have to say they picked the wrong tyre, had rims not up to running tubeless or where making tubeless errors with installation or other errors in terms of fixing a puncture. People new to cycling make similar errors with inner tubes but you get advised how to do it properly. the same should be true when using tubeless. There is a guide on my website which is relevent to all brands of tubeless tyres read it.

When I say there is no down side I mean it. The only one you could say there is is tubeless tyres are more expensive than clinchers but that is compared to the cheap clinchers we on here probably dont use.

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