Chinese Open Mold Gravel / CX Bikes

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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Metaluna
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:26 pm

by Metaluna

By the way, someone asked me in PM what I paid for the WCB-R-146. I apologize that my post count isn't high enough to respond to PM's, so hopefully it's okay to post it here. I was quoted $490 + $90 for the frame w/EMS shipping to the US east coast, plus another $40 for thru axles and headset

by Weenie


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ms6073
Posts: 2516
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

Metaluna wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:23 pm
I was quoted $490 + $90 for the frame w/EMS shipping to the US east coast, plus another $40 for thru axles and headset
I was quoted similar for two frames, thru-axles, headsets, and shipping and if I understood the last email correctly, the fork can be ordered with and without a hole for a fender mount. Probably going to imitate the color scheme of the wife's Scott Contessa Solace disc:

Image
Last edited by ms6073 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

ancker
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:29 pm

by ancker

As an updated quote (Carbonda CFR505):

465USD for frame and fork (no seatpost)
12USD for headset
80USD for painting job
10USD for 2 additional rear hangers
85USD for shipping cost (US Midwest)
29USD for Paypal charge

emotive
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by emotive

Has anyone looked at the new Carbonda CFR696?

The big attraction for me is the increased tyre clearance: 700C x 50 or 650b x 2.1
longer 435mm chainstays will make it more stable off road, but less responsive on road
traditional seatpost clamp should fit the slipping issues some had.

https://carbonda.en.alibaba.com/product ... meset.html

Metaluna
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:26 pm

by Metaluna

emotive wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:53 am
Has anyone looked at the new Carbonda CFR696?

The big attraction for me is the increased tyre clearance: 700C x 50 or 650b x 2.1
longer 435mm chainstays will make it more stable off road, but less responsive on road
traditional seatpost clamp should fit the slipping issues some had.

https://carbonda.en.alibaba.com/product ... meset.html
Interesting! Except for the tire clearance specs, that looks exactly like the Workswell WCB-R-146 we've been discussing recently (and which I've had in my basement for about a week now but haven't had time to do much with). I just checked the geometries for the 56cm frame and they match to the mm, and looking at the pics in your link, every other frame detail looks the same too. I think Workswell only specs up to 700C x 42 tires though, so either Carbonda has changed the geometry a little, or Workswell is being very conservative, or is allowing for fenders. Also, my Workswell didn't come with internal routing guides, so that's a plus for the Carbonda. For those of you ordering the Workswell, you might want to ask if they can do that for you, if it's important.

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ms6073
Posts: 2516
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

Metaluna wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:10 pm
Also, my Workswell didn't come with internal routing guides, so that's a plus for the Carbonda.
Can you be more specific regarding 'internal routing guides'? Our Scott disc road frames have a similar cable port system on the head tube with no internal guides which can make mechanical cable routing somewhat tedious, but we are using Di2 and hydraulic.
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

Metaluna
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:26 pm

by Metaluna

ms6073 wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:12 pm
Metaluna wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:10 pm
Also, my Workswell didn't come with internal routing guides, so that's a plus for the Carbonda.
Can you be more specific regarding 'internal routing guides'? Our Scott disc road frames have a similar cable port system on the head tube with no internal guides which can make mechanical cable routing somewhat tedious, but we are using Di2 and hydraulic.
I may not be using the right terminology. I was just referring to the temporary plastic tubes that the Carbonda looks like it ships with, which make it easy to pull your own cables and hoses through the first time. My Workswell didn’t come with these. I don’t know if either frame has permanent internal guides, but I didn’t notice any on the Workswell so far.

That said, the cable port in the head tube is huge, so I’m hoping I can just run an electrician’s fish tape in there and push an e-tube wire and brake hose through to the BB without too much drama.

One problem I’ve encountered is with the grommet topside of the BB shell where the FD cable is supposed to come out. I haven’t been able to remove this, and the hole is too narrow to pass an e-tube wire end cap, so I may have to ream it out a little, then seal it back up once I get the wire through. It looks like it’s supposed to come out — if you look inside the BB shell, there are little release tabs — but it doesn’t seem to budge and I’m reluctant to force it in case it was glued in.

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ms6073
Posts: 2516
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

Metaluna wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:02 pm
I was just referring to the temporary plastic tubes that the Carbonda looks like it ships with, which make it easy to pull your own cables and hoses through the first time.
Ah, thanks for the clarification, now I am understanding. Workswell has our money and should be painting the frames but unsure when they will get shipped.
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

emotive
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by emotive

Metaluna wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:10 pm
emotive wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:53 am
Has anyone looked at the new Carbonda CFR696?

The big attraction for me is the increased tyre clearance: 700C x 50 or 650b x 2.1
longer 435mm chainstays will make it more stable off road, but less responsive on road
traditional seatpost clamp should fit the slipping issues some had.

https://carbonda.en.alibaba.com/product ... meset.html
Interesting! Except for the tire clearance specs, that looks exactly like the Workswell WCB-R-146 we've been discussing recently (and which I've had in my basement for about a week now but haven't had time to do much with). I just checked the geometries for the 56cm frame and they match to the mm, and looking at the pics in your link, every other frame detail looks the same too. I think Workswell only specs up to 700C x 42 tires though, so either Carbonda has changed the geometry a little, or Workswell is being very conservative, or is allowing for fenders. Also, my Workswell didn't come with internal routing guides, so that's a plus for the Carbonda. For those of you ordering the Workswell, you might want to ask if they can do that for you, if it's important.
They are very close. I need either 54cm or a 56cm, so I'm looking at the geo on both. In both 54 and 56 the effective top tube is 5mm longer on the 696. The 696 wheelbase is also 14mm longer on the 54, but the same on the 56. The reach on the 696 is 5mm less on the 54. I think either the Carbonda or the Workswell will fit me.

I want to ride 700x32 on road and 650bx48 on gravel, and I like the shorter wheelbase of the Workswell, to have a slightly faster handling on the road. I wont make use of the extra Carbonda clearance but Carbonda have a lot of happy 505 customers. How are the Workswell builds going, anyone have any feedback good or bad?

Metaluna
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:26 pm

by Metaluna

emotive wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:45 am

They are very close. I need either 54cm or a 56cm, so I'm looking at the geo on both. In both 54 and 56 the effective top tube is 5mm longer on the 696. The 696 wheelbase is also 14mm longer on the 54, but the same on the 56. The reach on the 696 is 5mm less on the 54. I think either the Carbonda or the Workswell will fit me.

I want to ride 700x32 on road and 650bx48 on gravel, and I like the shorter wheelbase of the Workswell, to have a slightly faster handling on the road. I wont make use of the extra Carbonda clearance but Carbonda have a lot of happy 505 customers. How are the Workswell builds going, anyone have any feedback good or bad?
Like you I’m sort of in between the 54 and 56. I ended up going with the 56 because the reach is nearly the same but the 56 has a taller stack due to the massive head tube (170 is taller than a lot of touring frames!). So even though the effective TT is longer on the 56, the head tube brings the bars back towards the BB.

Had I known the Carbonda existed at the time I ordered the Workswell, I think I’d be leaning towards that frame. I definitely like that tire clearance, assuming it’s a real difference and not just something about the way they spec it. I’m still keeping my fingers crossed on whether the Workswell will accommodate fenders with 650b x 47/48 tires. I just need to swap out the QR end caps on my wheelset for the 12mm ones and I can test fit the wheels and at least eyeball it.

As for working with the frame, I just started some basic assembly yesterday. I had trouble getting the crown race for my first-choice Cane Creek 40 headset on. The steel baseplate just would not go more than a couple mm, even with PTFE grease. So I fell back to using the FSA headset I bought with the frame for $10 (is this a real FSA? Anyone know?) That crown race went on without too much trouble though. Maybe a proper crown race setter that is stiffer than the PVC one I made would have gotten the Cane Creek on, but the FSA should be fine. It just has a weird bearing size (36x45 taper) that only FSA seems to make, plus, for the money, I kind of doubt it’s an angular contact bearing so probably won’t last very long (but FSA does make ACB replacement bearings, and even stainless ones).

Aside from the difficult fork crown, the only other problem I’ve had, as I mentioned in a previous post, is removing the grommet that the FD control cable passes through, which is on top of the BB shell, behind the seat tube. I was planning to remove it and try to use a Shimano e-tube grommet (or bodge something together on my own) but it looks like I’ll have to leave it in place and enlarge the hole. It looks like it’s a hollow cone, so if I just start cutting slices off, the hole should get wider. Then once I get the wire through I can try to seal around the hole with some self-fusing rubber tape I have, or maybe some silicone RTV or something.

Other than that, everything I’ve checked on the frame looks good. I measured the press-fit BB bores at around 40.75mm, so that should give a good interference fit with the 41mm BB shell. Can’t put the BB in until I get all the wires and hoses routed through the BB shell, so I’m hoping to do that next.

emotive
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by emotive

I'm still undecided on whether to go up to 56, or down to 54. Like you @Metaluna the higher stack of the 56 appeals to me. But I could hand this bike down to my son in a couple of years if I get the 54 and build the next one...

Keep us informed of your build goes.

Metaluna
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:26 pm

by Metaluna

Okay I just ran into another issue with the frame. Actually not really a frame problem but a problem with the internal routing port on the head tube, which looks like the picture below. Maybe some of you who have had experience with this type of port have encountered this before.

Image

The problem is the removable alloy insert, which has three holes drilled into it. The middle hole is just a straight 5mm hole that passes brake housing, so that part is fine. The problem is that the other two holes are actually not simple holes, but cable stops for mechanical shift cables. So, though they look big on the outside, the side that faces into the frame is only maybe 2mm in diameter, and certainly won't pass an e-tube cable. So that means I can't get both a brake hose and an e-tube cable through this insert at the same time. I can drill one out, but then the frame will be useless should I ever want to run a mechanical groupset in the future (I'd have to hack something together, like maybe gluing a brass ferrule into the drilled-out hole to close it back up). I've got a query into Workswell to see if they sell replacements, in which case I'll just drill one of them and then keep a few spares in case I screw up, or want to repurpose the frame in the future. If not, I'm thinking of maybe filing a groove into the central hole so that it can fit both the brake hose and Di2 wire side-by-side. Another option would be to take the insert out and hack my own grommet. Maybe carve something out of a chunk of some kind of rubber (I wish I was better at doing 3D printing).

If I can't get spares, right now I'm leaning towards the groove if I can find a place on the insert to fit it that won't cut through one of the other holes or the threads where the fixing screw goes in.

User avatar
ms6073
Posts: 2516
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

Metaluna wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:26 pm
I've got a query into Workswell to see if they sell replacements, in which case I'll just drill one of them and then keep a few spares in case I screw up
I am curious to read the response as I had asked if there would be any issues using Di2 with the frameset, but really did not get an answer. I would think it would be like my Scott Solace road disc frame which has two different inserts for the cable port, one for mechanical and a separate one for Di2.
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

Metaluna
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:26 pm

by Metaluna

ms6073 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:20 pm
Metaluna wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:26 pm
I've got a query into Workswell to see if they sell replacements, in which case I'll just drill one of them and then keep a few spares in case I screw up
I am curious to read the response as I had asked if there would be any issues using Di2 with the frameset, but really did not get an answer. I would think it would be like my Scott Solace road disc frame which has two different inserts for the cable port, one for mechanical and a separate one for Di2.
Okay, it turns out they do have Di2-specific versions of the head tube grommet, so make sure you ask for them while ordering (I assume this applies to Carbonda as well).

Image

It looks like the Di2 version is just a fully-drilled-out copy of the mechanical one, so once I confirm that they've shipped some spares (I don't know the price yet) I will probably just proceed with modifying the one I have rather than wait.

Also, they said the grommet for the FD cable is supposed to be removable as well. I'm trying to confirm if they have replacements for that too, since I'll probably break the one I have trying to get it out. I can get it to wiggle around, but it's in there *really* tight and, because of its location, I can't really get my fingers into the BB shell to get a good grip on the release tab. There really isn't a nice, straight path to it from the outside either, so getting needlenose pliers in there is tricky as well. I'll have to experiment a bit with various tools.

Also, I did a test fit of my 650b x 47mm wheel, and the clearance on the rear triangle is generous. At least an inch from the seatstays, seat tube, and seatstay bridge, and maybe 1/2" or more to the chainstays. IIRC, the front fork clearance was pretty good too, and there should be plenty of room for fenders with these tires. I think Workswell under-spec'ed the tire clearance. I went ahead and ordered some Planet Bike Cascadia ALX 650b x 60mm fenders. The Portland Design Works 650 Beasts are supposed to fit too, though they spec a max tire size of 46mm. They cost twice as much as the Planet Bikes but look much nicer, IMHO.

The good news so far is, even though I've been having a few glitches, I've been getting all the "right" answers from Workswell. Everything is removable and replaceable, plenty of tire clearance, the fork does have a fender mount on the fork crown, etc.

agjell
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:16 pm

by agjell

Metaluna wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 12:13 pm
Okay, it turns out they do have Di2-specific versions of the head tube grommet, so make sure you ask for them while ordering (I assume this applies to Carbonda as well).
My Carbonda came with both hard plastic inserts for mechanical gears and rubber inserts for Di2. Covered for all possibilities and never had to specify anything.

by Weenie


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