Notubes Crest/Iron Cross - real world experience with psi

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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kingkongsfinger
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: UK

by kingkongsfinger

I'm running Schwalbe Pro One tubeless in 23c with Grails at 100 PSI, no problems for years.
"I could have done this job myself in five minutes, but as things turned out I had to spend two days trying to find out why it had taken someone else three weeks to do it wrong."

by Weenie


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jcrr
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:36 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by jcrr

updated table at end of thread
Last edited by jcrr on Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If it ain't broken, it could be lighter"

youngs_modulus
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:03 am
Location: Madison, WI USA

by youngs_modulus

AdyM wrote:Maybe take a look at DCR wheels 24/25 disc rim. It's the same profile as the grail, 24 wide, 25 deep, 20mm internal, but is only 415g (30more than Iron Cross, 45 less than grail?) £60 per rim.

The 6066 alloy is naturally stronger than the 6061 more commonly used and the heat treatment is applied to the rims after they have been extruded, rolled and welded. That means you get the heat treatment on the weld as well, rather than essentially creating a weak point in the rim where it has been melted.


Who told you this? It's crazy to think that anyone would hear-treat a rim before welding instead of after. I can't believe that any manufacturer of welded rims does this. Where did you get this information? Who claimed that other rims are heat treated before, not after welding? That would basically be like icing a cake before you bake it, not after.

Stan's Grail is made of 6061, which yields at about 37 KSI in the T-6 condition. 6066 is a good deal stronger, at about 52 KSI when treated to T-6.

Interestingly, Stan's Crest Mk 3 is extruded from 6069, which is stronger still: 60 KSI when heat treated to the T-6 condition. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Grail Mk 2 that hits maybe 425 grams at some point in the future.

thprice
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:34 am

by thprice

And 3 more:

Grail___________ Michelin Pro4 Endurance V2 28 (N)________75-80_______Good
Grail___________ Continental Cyclocross Speed 35 (N)_______45-50_______Good
Grail___________ Maxxis Rambler EXO 120TPI 40 (N)________35-40_______Good

youngs_modulus
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:03 am
Location: Madison, WI USA

by youngs_modulus

I have a couple more data points:

In the summer, I run Schwalbe S-Ones (tubeless, 700x30) on my grails. I've had them up to 75 psi with no problems, though I typically run them at 50-60 psi.

In the winter, I use Continental Top Contact Winter IIs on my Grails. These are wire-bead, non-tubeless tires in the 700x37 size. They'll blow off at around 65 psi, but I run them at 50 psi without a problem. And they're pretty great on anything but black ice.

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jcrr
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:36 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by jcrr

table update elsewhere
Last edited by jcrr on Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If it ain't broken, it could be lighter"

kingkongsfinger
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: UK

by kingkongsfinger

Grail___________ Michelin Pro4 23 (Y)________75+______Ka Boom
"I could have done this job myself in five minutes, but as things turned out I had to spend two days trying to find out why it had taken someone else three weeks to do it wrong."

jfranci3
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

kingkongsfinger wrote:Grail___________ Michelin Pro4 23 (Y)________75+______Ka Boom


RIM___________ TIRE (Setup as Tubeless?)_______ PSI_________ RESULT

Iron Cross_______Vittoria xg tnt 32c (Y)___________50____Ka-Boom!
Iron Cross_______WTB Nano 40c (Y)______________35________Good
Iron Cross_______Spez Roubaix Pro 30-32 (N)______80-85_____Good
Iron Cross_______Shwalbe Pro One 28 (Y)_________60-70_____Good
Iron Cross_______Kenda Slant Six 32 (Y)__________30-50_____Good
Iron Cross_______Kenda Small Block Eight 38 (Y)___30-50_____Good
Iron Cross_______Clement Strada LGG 28 (N)______40-70_____Good


Grail___________ Hutchinson Sector28 (*)__________???_______Good
Grail___________ Hutchinson Fusion (Y)____________110_______Good
Grail___________ Challenge Almanzo 33 (N)________55_____Ka-Boom!
Grail___________ Hutchinson Sector28 (Y)__________70________Good
Grail___________ Bontrager CX3 32 (N) ___________60_________Good
Grail___________ Conti GP4000s 25 (N) ___________80-115_____Good
Grail___________ Schwalbe Pro One 23 (Y)_________100________Good
Grail___________ Mich Pro4 Endurance V2 28 (N)____75-80______Good
Grail___________ Conti Cyclocross Speed 35 (N)____45-50______Good
Grail___________ Maxxis Rambler EXO 120TPI 40 (N)_35-40_____Good
Grail___________ Schwalbe S-One 30 (Y)__________50-75______Good
Grail___________ Continental Top Contact 37 (Y)____50_Good; 75_Ka-boom!
Grail___________ Michelin Pro4 23 (Y)____________75+________Ka Boom


Crest___________ Conti GP 4S (N)________________80-100______Good
Crest___________ ?????????? (N)________________ 90________ Good
Crest___________ Vittoria Rubino 28 (N)__________110________ Good
Crest___________ Clement Strada LGG 28 (N)__________50-80____ Good

mrlobber
Posts: 679
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

After I cut the sidewalls on my Challenge Almanzos, finally decided to go tubeless, so here's another entry:

Grail___________ Schwalbe G-One 35 (Y)__________55______Good

jfranci3
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

Just logging this here because these are a popular Stans Grail build-
In the US, Performance Bike stores offer a 32h Grail Disc wheelset 1700g for $320 after promos. http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/w ... 4165_-1___


They have no support /tech docs.
After some detective work, they appear to be using Powerway PHB - m71 hubs. I needed to source 9mm/10mm thru end cap adapters. I learned the bearings are Enduro MR 17287 LLB A3 ABEC3 front and rear for the hub, not sure on the free hub. The bearings have a 17 ID, so most end caps won't crossover as they are 15mm.

Solutions for 17mm front axle end caps (Pure ?, Sta-Tru, Powerway, random no label hubs):
1) Sta-Tru wheels use a similar hub and bearings. They offer caps at reasonable prices
2) DT Swiss 180 28mm / 17mm end caps.
3) I had a good experience SKY Bicycle Equip. Center on Aliexpress. Order something that looks close to right and put what you need in the comments. You'll need to give the bearing size.

Solutions for rear 17mm axles:
1) Hope Evo end caps are 17mm
2) I had a good experience SKY Bicycle Equip. Center on Aliexpress. Order something that looks close to right and put what you need in the comments. You'll need to give the bearing size and if the rear axle is 15 or 17mm, aluminum or steel (magnet test should work).

Bhaalgorn
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:10 pm

by Bhaalgorn

Guess I'll be adding another data point to this table soon. I'm going to try seating up some Schwalbe Marathon Supremes 35c on some Stan's Crest Mk3.

I've been using a set of Grails with the same tires at 45psi for two-ish years now with great success. I suspect I'll run the tires at 30-35 psi on the Crest Mk3s. I'll report back in a couple weeks.

Bhaalgorn
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:10 pm

by Bhaalgorn

Grail___________ Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 35 (Y)_35-45_____Good
Crest Mk3___________ Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 35 (Y)_25-35_____Good

jfranci3
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

Grail________ Panaracer Gravel King SK 43c TL____40______Good

thprice
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:34 am

by thprice

Update on Grail with Maxxis Rambler EXO 120. They initially went on OK but now even if I pump to maximum pressure of 75psi they do not seat properly. Also found punctures were more frequent with them. Not going to use them again.

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jcrr
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:36 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by jcrr

Table Update :smartass:

RIM___________ TIRE (Setup as Tubeless?)_______ PSI_________ RESULT

Iron Cross_______Vittoria xg tnt 32c (Y)______________50____Ka-Boom!
Iron Cross_______WTB Nano 40c (Y)_________________35________Good
Iron Cross_______Spez Roubaix Pro 30-32 (N)_______85-90_____Good
Iron Cross_______Spez Roubaix Pro 30-32 (Y)_______60________Good
Iron Cross_______Shwalbe Pro One 28 (Y)__________60-70_____Good
Iron Cross_______Kenda Slant Six 32 (Y)____________30-50_____Good
Iron Cross_______Kenda Small Block Eight 38 (Y)___30-50_____Good
Iron Cross_______Clement Strada LGG 28 (N)________40-70_____Good


Grail___________ Hutchinson Sector28 (*)______________???_______Good
Grail___________ Hutchinson Fusion (Y)_______________110_______Good
Grail___________ Challenge Almanzo 33 (N)___________55_______Ka-Boom!
Grail___________ Hutchinson Sector28 (Y)_____________70________Good
Grail___________ Bontrager CX3 32 (N) _______________60_________Good
Grail___________ Conti GP4000s 25 (N) ______________80-115_____Good
Grail___________ Schwalbe Pro One 23 (Y)____________100________Good
Grail___________ Mich Pro4 Endurance V2 28 (N)_____75-80______Good
Grail___________ Conti Cyclocross Speed 35 (N)______45-50______Good
Grail___________ Maxxis Rambler EXO 120TPI 40 (N)_35-75_____Bead not seating/sealing well
Grail___________ Schwalbe S-One 30 (Y)_____________50-75______Good
Grail___________ Continental Top Contact 37 (Y)________50_______Good
Grail___________ Continental Top Contact 37 (Y)________75______Ka-boom!
Grail___________ Michelin Pro4 23 (Y)__________________75+______Ka Boom
Grail___________ Panaracer Gravel King SK 43c TL______40______Good
Grail___________ Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 35 (Y)__35-45____Good
Grail___________ Schwalbe G-One 35 (Y)_________________55______Good


Crest___________ Conti GP 4S (N)____________________80-100______Good
Crest___________ ?????????? (N)_______________________90________ Good
Crest___________ Vittoria Rubino 28 (N)______________110________ Good
Crest___________ Clement Strada LGG 28 (N)__________50-80____ Good
Crest Mk3______ Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 35 (Y)_25-35_____Good

*=assuming tubeless, since this is a tubeless tire
"If it ain't broken, it could be lighter"

by Weenie


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