My findings on SRAM AXS XPLR WIDE as 2X drivetrain with 10-36,10-33 cassettes

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andy4g63
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:02 pm

by andy4g63

I finally got to be able to write about that.

I was in process of building a gravel bike:
RIBBLE CGR SL...

Initially was deemed to be 1X system with SRAM rival axs etap XPLR rear derailleur and SRAM Force XPLR 10-44 cassette and a single oval 44t chainring mounted on a SRAM DUB Rival WIDE crankset...

After much thought I decided I wanted a 2X drivetrain, because 1X wasn't sufficient when doing a fast group ride.
The jumps from a 15-13 and 13-11/ especially that one/ are hard when already doing 24-26+ MPH...

And to add to that 44-10 wasn't high enough gear to keeping up when needed...

Initially I installed the 10-33 cassette and the Rival XPLR rear derailleur.
At this point I removed the 40t chainring, that came with the crankset and installed Force AXS spider 107 BCD for 46/33 chainrings.
And of course the Force AXS 46-33 rings.

That's why I got the Rival WIDE even if it is boat anchor, because it still had the 8bolts direct mount interface that I can attach either regular107 BCD, or smaller 94 BCD if I wanted to run 44-30 2 X, which I didn't.

Probably would have gotten away with regular,not WIDE crank, but didn't wanted to riskit if I decided later in the process to run large 45-47mm tires.

10-33 cassette:
After some initial tinkering and adjustment of the B gap bolt I got it to shift very very good...


However there were a few problems...
At that time I didn't have the WIDE FD installed, so I was switching the chain manually between small&big rings.

I got it to shift good on the big ring with the B gap bolt turned out almost all the way, otherwise it didn't wanted to shift from the largest cog to second largest cog.33-28t

After that when I switched to small ring shifting was OK,...
BUT when going down the cassette after the middle the chain was completely loose and if give it more tension then it wouldn't shift from Largest to second largest cog. Period...

Back to square one, I cut the chain...
Initially it was Rival AXS chain 120 links.
I cut initially 3inch of that chain/3 inner and 3outer/

After that I cut another 2inch/2 inner and 2outer/.

So basically going with 110 links. A little too short as I found later,
At this point I installed the 10-36 Rival AXS cassette . Didn't have the time or desire to play with the 10-33, since running a 46/33 with 10-33 cassette wouldn't give more than 1:1 climbing gear and that's not low for gravel. So 10-36 I went.

When trying to shift from second largest to the last cog, the chain was simply too stretched and was kind the jamming and didn't wanted to shift from 32 to 36 cog/ on the large chainring... Oops.

Again I got a new chain and I cut4 inches, /4 inner, 4 outer.../ This is again Rival 120 links chain.

After very careful adjustments of the B gap bolt turned out, but not all the way and switching between small and large rings to ensure proper tension when on the small ring and 11t cog. The AXS when in 2X mode wouldn't let you shift to the smallest 10t cog.

After that I installed the SRAM AXS wide front derailleur.
Installation was straight forward, but according to SRAM you have to install 2.5 mm spacer on the left/ non driver side and 5.5mm spacer on the drive side, before you put the crank in.

Guess what the Sram didn't provide the needed spacers that come with the 68-73 mm BSA DUB BB.Even though it labeled WIDE.

Instead there were a 2 mm, 3mm, and 4.5mm spacers and after spending ton of money on everything, frame wheels, group set, bars, saddle ,etc. I decided to use what I had.

I installed 3mm/ instead of 2.5mm/ on the left side and 4.5 mm on the drive side. These simply snap on on the BB cups,but being 0.5mm theoretically short, I installed a 1mm spacer on BB itself on the threads, so I was hypothetically sticking to the right 0.5 mm.

According to a few people that I talked to from SRAM,
When installing a WIDE FD you need to try and have the big ring to be a little OFF the marks on the cage. Basically he marks should have been a little outside of the ring, because they were saying when the FR shifts TO NOT OVERTHROW THE CHAIN.

I found that insufficient in my case and because the bottom of Rival WIDE FD cage has like V shape, so if you set the large ring Off the marks sometimes the teeth were hitting the rear apart of cage, so I scrapped that.

I installed the FD by feel, playing a little with the High limit screw.
I set up a very small gap between the tooth and cage and tightened it.
That's it.

Pairing everything together and little extra adjustments on the High and Low limit screws.

I have to tell you it shifts like a dream.

Small to Large ring,
Large to small ring I performed hundreds of shifts on the bike stand, it works like a dream.

I also had the bike Off the stand and on the floor upside down and performed numerous shifts in front and rear...
Flawless performance no dropped chain.

As I said earlier the B gap screw is very very sensitive. You have to find theRIGHT POSITION.

In my case is 3 mm or so in when looked from the left side.

Micro adjustments are easy,but I find it better to do it before the chain was installed, much more precise.

After I installed the chain l do just a one or two micro adjustments on the right side and write this down to remember where I am at.

I also tried it in Sequential and Compensation modes in SRAM AXS app.

Shifts like a dream in both directions and on both rings, in both modes.
Also very smooth.
A little less smooth in the Compensation modes, maybe because I had to compensate 2cogs.
And in Sram AXS app in Compensation mode, when shfts from small to Large ring the rear is delayed sort of on purpose.

But nonetheless great experience.
Happy with the results.

I am almost/key word ALMOST positive it would have worked with 10-33 in 2X mode, but again I tested with this cassette only In 1X and without FD.

P.S.
Please pardon me, if I repeat something, or made a mistake.

I am writing at work on my phone, constantly being interrupted, etc.

Thanks for your time
Cheers 🍻🍻🍻.

fporter
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:58 pm

by fporter

Hi Andy,
That was a good bit of work. :beerchug:
My Canyon Grizl came with SRAM XPLR which has been fine on my all-dirt rides but it hasn't been fast enough for mixed pavement/dirt rides in a group so I'm thinking 2x.
How do you think it'd work with 46 & 30 chainrings (like the Easton set) & 10-36 cassette? When is the WIDE front derailleur necessary?

thanks!

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andy4g63
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:02 pm

by andy4g63

fporter wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:42 pm
Hi Andy,
That was a good bit of work. :beerchug:
My Canyon Grizl came with SRAM XPLR which has been fine on my all-dirt rides but it hasn't been fast enough for mixed pavement/dirt rides in a group so I'm thinking 2x.
How do you think it'd work with 46 & 30 chainrings (like the Easton set) & 10-36 cassette? When is the WIDE front derailleur necessary?

thanks!
It "should"work fine with those 46-30 rings.
There's a member hers DaveS. He is running this setup, but with regular Force AXS rear derailleur...

BUT THERE'S one problem, I think...
At least in my experience...

Keeping proper chain tension on the smaller cogs and small ring, especially on the bottom of cassette, like12-11 cogs/SRAM RD doesn't allow to shift to the 10 t when on the small ring/

Sooo in my case I was able to manage with the 10-36 and 46/33 rings and the chain is a tad shorter then I would like.

But if I cut shorter and adjust the B screw the shifting from 36-32 when on big ring is almost not happening super slow .

There's a thin line between chain length and B screw adjustments and mine is almost all the way out.

I also tried with the 10-33 cassette and that was the problem, if I was to cut the chain short enough to clear small ring and smaller cogs, then it was super short, with a lot of tension, especially toward the 32-36t cogs when on big ring and it was sort of getting jammed when I was trying to shift to the 36t when on big ring...

So in short, not sure that XPLR would work with the 30t ring and 12-11 t cogs/chain loose...

I know no one is using these combos, but sometimes when you grind a lot and tired, then it might happen.

The only way you could do that is to use your desired gear combo 10-36 &46/30 is to use Sequential shifting in the SRAM AXS app.
Then it would shift to big ring whenever you reach bottom cogs when on small ring ..

About the wide FD, I got it because I have a wide crank, so I thought the would be better match since the crank is 2.5-3 mm to the right/increasing the chain line..

Cheers 🍻

TwC
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:33 pm

by TwC

I found a post in the SRAM AXS owners Facebook group and found a response from their guru who said the issue running 2x with the XPLR mechs is to do with upper jockey wheel being designed only for 1x due to alignment.

I've been running a Force wide rear mech with OSPW and a 10-36 cassette and 50/34 front double ring with a standard front mech. This has worked flawlessly. I've considered trying the same with my XPLR rear mech but after the response from SRAM I'm unsure if it's possible.

andy4g63
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:02 pm

by andy4g63

TwC wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:00 pm
I found a post in the SRAM AXS owners Facebook group and found a response from their guru who said the issue running 2x with the XPLR mechs is to do with upper jockey wheel being designed only for 1x due to alignment.

I've been running a Force wide rear mech with OSPW and a 10-36 cassette and 50/34 front double ring with a standard front mech. This has worked flawlessly. I've considered trying the same with my XPLR rear mech but after the response from SRAM I'm unsure if it's possible.
That's exactly what I did.
Read my post carefully.

I don't know about FB gurus, but I ring XPLR RD with 2X and 10-36, shifting is spot on.

stjepan
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:04 am

by stjepan

Hi Andy,
Thanks for your detailed explanation of the process converting Rival XPLR 1x to 2x. I'm in the same boat, would like to have 2x for bigger versatility and smoother riding (I'm more on the road then on the gravel). Also, I'm not a home mechanic, so the conversion job would go to my LBS. Can you quickly confirm I got everything right, as to what I need to purchase: wide FD, Force AXS spider 107 BCD for 46/33 chainrings, 46/33 chainrings, 10-36 cassette? Would it be an easy set up or a bit of a faff (according to your first post, I'm inclined to think it would be the latter)? :)

Thanks for the feedback, appreciated.

Stjepan Tomislav

andy4g63
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:02 pm

by andy4g63

stjepan wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:42 pm
Hi Andy,
Thanks for your detailed explanation of the process converting Rival XPLR 1x to 2x. I'm in the same boat, would like to have 2x for bigger versatility and smoother riding (I'm more on the road then on the gravel). Also, I'm not a home mechanic, so the conversion job would go to my LBS. Can you quickly confirm I got everything right, as to what I need to purchase: wide FD, Force AXS spider 107 BCD for 46/33 chainrings, 46/33 chainrings, 10-36 cassette? Would it be an easy set up or a bit of a faff (according to your first post, I'm inclined to think it would be the latter)? :)

Thanks for the feedback, appreciated.

Stjepan Tomislav

Everything that you said is correct Tomislav...

The only thing that I mentioned in the thread is;

Pay super close attention to CHAIN LENGHT....

First time I did it it was OK in the small/small,
But way too short on Big/big, it won't shift.

Set it up on Big -Big with plenty of chain to spare and then do small-small and adjust tension with B gap screws.

Good luck

stjepan
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:04 am

by stjepan

Thanks Andy! Do you know the chain length you ended up with? Or is this situational (I assume in corellation with the frame size)? I have a Giant Revolt in size L.

stevesbike
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:33 pm

by stevesbike

I find SRAM increasingly frustrating for it's lack of gravel 2x options. I think I'll just switch to Shimano GRX

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10919
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

stevesbike wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:21 am
I find SRAM increasingly frustrating for it's lack of gravel 2x options. I think I'll just switch to Shimano GRX

eTap AXS Wide exists and it has way better range than GRX 11-speed.

43/30x10-36 = 516% range.

GRX officially supports 48/31x11-34t = 479% range.

Both SRAM and Shimano can unofficially be run with wider range (and some limitations) as proven here.

stjepan
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:04 am

by stjepan

To maybe expand a bit on the OPs subject. I was in the market for the Rival spindle power meter and found a good deal on the entire crankset with the 46t ring. To give a bit of context - lately I've been riding my gravel bike on the Rival XPLR 1x set up with 40t ring and the 10/44 cassette. Since I do quite a bit of road riding (have a set of deep section wheels for this purpose), I was wondering would the 46t ring suit me better? I'm coming from a road aero bike and was used to 52/36 rings and 10/30 cassette combination. My usual rides are relatively flat, gradients are between cca 7-10%, with rare occasions where the road hits mid double digits (cca 15% gradient). Maybe more knowledgeable members here can chime in, what kind of total range as well as jumps between gears can I expect with the 46t ring and the 10/44 cassette? Can I expect any benefit from this change (other than a higher top end speed)? Current 40t ring isn't the best option for the conditions I encounter on the road. Riding at higher speeds takes more effort due to the higher cadence and I find myself between gears more than I'd like to.
My general idea was to swap the rings between 46t and 40t, depending on the kind of ride I had planned for the day (road vs gravel).

Sorry for the long post, thanks for any constructive input I can get.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10919
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

stjepan wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:14 pm
To maybe expand a bit on the OPs subject. I was in the market for the Rival spindle power meter and found a good deal on the entire crankset with the 46t ring. To give a bit of context - lately I've been riding my gravel bike on the Rival XPLR 1x set up with 40t ring and the 10/44 cassette. Since I do quite a bit of road riding (have a set of deep section wheels for this purpose), I was wondering would the 46t ring suit me better? I'm coming from a road aero bike and was used to 52/36 rings and 10/30 cassette combination. My usual rides are relatively flat, gradients are between cca 7-10%, with rare occasions where the road hits mid double digits (cca 15% gradient). Maybe more knowledgeable members here can chime in, what kind of total range as well as jumps between gears can I expect with the 46t ring and the 10/44 cassette? Can I expect any benefit from this change (other than a higher top end speed)? Current 40t ring isn't the best option for the conditions I encounter on the road. Riding at higher speeds takes more effort due to the higher cadence and I find myself between gears more than I'd like to.
My general idea was to swap the rings between 46t and 40t, depending on the kind of ride I had planned for the day (road vs gravel).

Sorry for the long post, thanks for any constructive input I can get.
Quite simply with a 1x drivetrain your range is the largest cog divided by the smallest cog. 44/10 = 4.4 = 440%. This is less range than the 2x setup of 46/33x10-33 (460%), but more range than 46/33x10-28 (390%).

46x10 is a bigger gear than 50x11.

As you increase your chainring size, the absolute difference in each jump on the cassette increases. If you were finding yourself "in between" gears with the 40t chainring, it will be even worse with the 46t for not only that reason, but also because you will spend more time further down the cassette where the jumps are relatively bigger in addition to being absolutely bigger from having a larger chainring.

stjepan
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:04 am

by stjepan

Thanks for the explanation. I was basically hoping for a better cadence and higher top speed with the 46t ring. Since I bought it, I will install it nevertheless just to try it out and see how it feels. Will report back.

Thanks again!

CustomMetal
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by CustomMetal

It depends also what you use the bike for. I have the eagle RD on mine but with an XPLR cassette and a 46 tooth chainring. I definitely wouldn't size down as with 50mm slicks on means I can hang with the fast group on a weekend road group ride. I have another set of wheels for off road that I have the XPLR cassette on and for the local woods and canal path 46-10/44 works fine. However if I want to do some serious gravel I swap out the cassette for a 10/50 eagle and the chainring for a 44 which uses the same length chain as my other set up and I have never felt like I need more gears...
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stjepan
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:04 am

by stjepan

CustomMetal wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:39 am
It depends also what you use the bike for. I have the eagle RD on mine but with an XPLR cassette and a 46 tooth chainring. I definitely wouldn't size down as with 50mm slicks on means I can hang with the fast group on a weekend road group ride. I have another set of wheels for off road that I have the XPLR cassette on and for the local woods and canal path 46-10/44 works fine. However if I want to do some serious gravel I swap out the cassette for a 10/50 eagle and the chainring for a 44 which uses the same length chain as my other set up and I have never felt like I need more gears...
Yes, I am mostly on roads and like to go as fast as my legs can take me (have Cadex 65 wheelset with 25mm slicks for this purpose). Gravel rides are still a secend choice for me (although growing in interest), so it's important to me to have that option covered. Having funds for only one bike at the time, I ended up getting a gravel bike (swapping the wheels depending on the ride). The 1x system I decided on is very capable but proved to have its shortcomings on the road.
If I'm reading it correctly, your experience with the 46t ring is positive on the road, no big jumps etc? Does the chain have to be sized up from the 40t chainring I currently have (I too have an XPLR cassette and an Rival RD)?
Thanks for the follow up in advance!
Last edited by stjepan on Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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