New GRX this year?

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

CarlosFerreiro wrote:Are we heading for a GRX familiy like?
800 wireless 12sp - "ultegra"
600 wireless 12sp - "105"
400 mech 11sp - Tiagra
Probably. Just wish they’d pull their fingers out and launch it.


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robertbb
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by robertbb

ultimobici wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:06 am
Skittlez212 wrote:From what I’ve been told from certain manufacturers, it’s gonna be end of 2023 or early 2024.
Will be 12 speed, wireless and will use microspline cassette.
From what I was told by Shimano, Microspline may only be for 1x systems that use 12 speed MTB cassettes. The 2x systems will most likely use road cassettes from 7100 & 8100 so will fit HG splined bodies.


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Shimano's 12s MTB cassettes are way worse than their 11s MTB cassettes (gradation wise).

I certainly hope if GRX goes microspline they will give people other cassette options for the 1x version.

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CarlosFerreiro
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by CarlosFerreiro

ultimobici wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:39 am
CarlosFerreiro wrote:Are we heading for a GRX familiy like?
800 wireless 12sp - "ultegra"
600 wireless 12sp - "105"
400 mech 11sp - Tiagra
Probably. Just wish they’d pull their fingers out and launch it.
I was meaning, if not a full 3 set of new GRX launch, then heading for that kind of tiering as an end goal for the 2nd generation, over however long that takes? Seems to be no mech 12 speed levers coming from anywhere, in which case that's where matching the road pattern on GRX would go.

I've ended up deciding that if it has to be "Tiagra" for mechanical 11 speed from now on then that's just what I'll have to go with, but I'm hoping there isn't downgrading of current 11 speed feature spec to go along with it.

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by RDY

ultimobici wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:06 am
Skittlez212 wrote:From what I’ve been told from certain manufacturers, it’s gonna be end of 2023 or early 2024.
Will be 12 speed, wireless and will use microspline cassette.
From what I was told by Shimano, Microspline may only be for 1x systems that use 12 speed MTB cassettes. The 2x systems will most likely use road cassettes from 7100 & 8100 so will fit HG splined bodies.


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They've created a ridiculous damned if they do, damned if they don't situation by not goingt MS on road. Which didn't happen because the installed base of MS was so poor .... because of their own shenanigans at the launch of their 12s MTB gruppos - most people already seem to have forgotten the SNAFU where they denied 90% of third parties licenses to make MS compatible freehubs. I'd still rather they went MS on GRX. Don't particularly care if road cassettes aren't compatible, as 11-36 is max.

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by satanas

ultimobici wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:06 am
From what I was told by Shimano, Microspline may only be for 1x systems that use 12 speed MTB cassettes. The 2x systems will most likely use road cassettes from 7100 & 8100 so will fit HG splined bodies.
^ I hope this is correct; it seems like the sensible thing to do to me. However, it would increase the schism between 1x and 2x, probably not a big deal for most people who will know which they'd prefer.

Seems like all the necessary bits basically exist now except for clutched 12 speed RDs. I'd like to see lower gearing options (i.e., smaller rings and/or bigger 2x cassettes) for bikepacking, but Shimano only seem to care about racers and big gear pushers so I won't hold my breath. :-(

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

RDY wrote:Don't particularly care if road cassettes aren't compatible, as 11-36 is max.
The whole reason for not using MS on anything but 1x cassettes is to so they don’t have to retool.

When GRX was launched the cassettes were all existing MTB variants. With 7100 having an 11-36 option coming out later this year, it follows that they do the same this time. The wider ratios required for 1x will likely be MS simply because they use SLX & XT 10-45 and 10-51.


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by DrimeOser

Using those old cassettes was a plain lazy move by Shimano. To me it ruined the whole GRX one-by as the gearing is unsuitalble in range for speedy gravel rides.

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by ultimobici

DrimeOser wrote:Using those old cassettes was a plain lazy move by Shimano. To me it ruined the whole GRX one-by as the gearing is unsuitalble in range for speedy gravel rides.
That’s why 2x makes more sense. The only reason Sram pushes 1x is to mask their inability to make a proper front mech! ;)


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by DrimeOser

No 2-by for me, the Ekar fanboy.

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by RDY

ultimobici wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:50 am
RDY wrote:Don't particularly care if road cassettes aren't compatible, as 11-36 is max.
The whole reason for not using MS on anything but 1x cassettes is to so they don’t have to retool.

When GRX was launched the cassettes were all existing MTB variants. With 7100 having an 11-36 option coming out later this year, it follows that they do the same this time. The wider ratios required for 1x will likely be MS simply because they use SLX & XT 10-45 and 10-51.


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I don't think that's why they did it ...

But re: GRX 12s 2x potentially being limited to 11-36 ... that would completely kill it for me. I run a 50/34 - 11/40 setup currently with GRX.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

RDY wrote:I don't think that's why they did it ...

But re: GRX 12s 2x potentially being limited to 11-36 ... that would completely kill it for me. I run a 50/34 - 11/40 setup currently with GRX.
You’re using a cassette way out of the range GRX is designed to work with, so you’re probably not going to be satisfied with the next iteration. As it is, if you’re running 700x40c, your set up is as highly geared as my road bike that has 52x11 with 28c tyres - far from the norm on gravel.


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markdjr
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by markdjr

ultimobici wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:41 am
RDY wrote:I don't think that's why they did it ...

But re: GRX 12s 2x potentially being limited to 11-36 ... that would completely kill it for me. I run a 50/34 - 11/40 setup currently with GRX.
You’re using a cassette way out of the range GRX is designed to work with, so you’re probably not going to be satisfied with the next iteration. As it is, if you’re running 700x40c, your set up is as highly geared as my road bike that has 52x11 with 28c tyres - far from the norm on gravel.


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If you ride in a fastish group on mixed terrain, then having the higher gearing is a plus, especially if youre not someone who's average cadence is 90-100+. 50-34 is just what's been available, I think for most people a 48/34 is a great option or 48/32, but it will be awhile before more manufacturers have adopted this. I'm on 48/34 and 10-45, staying out of the smaller cogs and the small ring. I've got a gear for just about anywhere I might ride and spend a lot of time in the middle of the cassette with a relatively straight chainline.

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by Tifosiphil

markdjr wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:42 am
ultimobici wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:41 am
RDY wrote:I don't think that's why they did it ...

But re: GRX 12s 2x potentially being limited to 11-36 ... that would completely kill it for me. I run a 50/34 - 11/40 setup currently with GRX.
You’re using a cassette way out of the range GRX is designed to work with, so you’re probably not going to be satisfied with the next iteration. As it is, if you’re running 700x40c, your set up is as highly geared as my road bike that has 52x11 with 28c tyres - far from the norm on gravel.


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If you ride in a fastish group on mixed terrain, then having the higher gearing is a plus, especially if youre not someone who's average cadence is 90-100+. 50-34 is just what's been available, I think for most people a 48/34 is a great option or 48/32, but it will be awhile before more manufacturers have adopted this. I'm on 48/34 and 10-45, staying out of the smaller cogs and the small ring. I've got a gear for just about anywhere I might ride and spend a lot of time in the middle of the cassette with a relatively straight chainline.
I ride in the UK in a relatively flat area and to be honest I just use road gearing on my gravel bike and haven't had too many issues running 38mm tyres and 52/34 with an 11/28 for most riders and an 11/34 for anything hillier

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by RDY

ultimobici wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:41 am
RDY wrote:I don't think that's why they did it ...

But re: GRX 12s 2x potentially being limited to 11-36 ... that would completely kill it for me. I run a 50/34 - 11/40 setup currently with GRX.
You’re using a cassette way out of the range GRX is designed to work with, so you’re probably not going to be satisfied with the next iteration. As it is, if you’re running 700x40c, your set up is as highly geared as my road bike that has 52x11 with 28c tyres - far from the norm on gravel.


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I ride flat gravel, rolling gravel and mountain trails with 1000m up / down single descents, plus road on the bikes. THis gearing is definitely useful to me.

Officially, Shimano DOES support this setup and endorses it. Just most people including mechanics cluck and fuss that it won't shift properly or half the gears will be unusable. It shifts better than any other setup I've had, and only the 50/40 is unusable - only reason you'd use it anyway would be if you forgot to change rings. 34/11 isn't ideal, but again the only reason you'd use it is if you forgot to change rings.

48/31 or 48/32 is cool ... but chainring / crankset combos, especially once you factor in power, are pretty limiting, especially if you want to use a Rotor Q, more so if you're on a BB designed for 24/25mm axle rather than DUB or 30mm. If I was running round rings, assiomas and BB386 EVO then I wouldn't mind, but I find the ovals rings more comfortable for long climbs, would prefer a spider based PM, and unfortunately none of my BBs currently have a larger bore.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

RDY wrote:Officially, Shimano DOES support this setup and endorses it. Just most people including mechanics cluck and fuss that it won't shift properly or half the gears will be unusable.
They do not endorse it at all. The doubles are rated to 34t maximum. The 1x mech RD-RX812 will shift up to a 42t. However Shimano has always been conservative with their capacities.


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