6.5kg (14lb) Winter Gravel Bike Project

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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xixang
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm

by xixang

Edit: Sorry just read the rule about posting weight in metric!

Been riding, building, and tinkering for over 20 years. I live in Cincinnati, OH (hilly) and my riding consists of 50% commuting, 40% gravel/All-Road, and 10% MTB.

I'm starting with a used 2018 Parlee Chebacco frameset that I purchased on eBay for $1100 shipped. Goals are a bike that's reliable, durable, and comfortable. Non-negotiables are hydraulic disc brakes, 1x11, the fit has to be correct, and the only tire I love is the Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass. I'm less concerned with details that would be important for racing, not gonna race.

I'll post pics as I go, hope to have it completed by spring. Frame weight below includes BB, rear brake cables, and dropouts. Hoping for sub-1000g frame. We'll see...

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Last edited by xixang on Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Steve Curtis
Posts: 759
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:20 pm
Location: Hampshire UK, Dublin Ireland and Geneva Switzerland.

by Steve Curtis

Good luck and I'll be interested to see how you get on.
I built a winter bike last year with a frame and fork of approximately the same weight. Ultimately I decided that dropping the final 600g grams just wasn't worth the effort and didn't do anything to ride, so stuck at 16lbs with 700-40 Terra speeds.

nismosr
Posts: 1479
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 5:15 pm

by nismosr

whats the widest tire you can run on that frameset ?
2020 Colnago C64 Mapei - Campagnolo SR12 EPS - Campagnolo Bora WTO 60
2020 Basso Diamante - Campagnolo SR11 EPS - LW Meilenstein
2021 Basso Diamante SV - Campagnolo SR12 EPS - Fulcrum Wind 55

xixang
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm

by xixang

Parlee says 700x40 is max. The newer Chebacco XD is 700x47. Would rather have had that one but they don't have a reasonable frameset option and with other $$$$ lightweight parts, the used frame was appealing. How wide depends on your comfort level. Most manufacturers seem to like 6mm on either side of the tire. With the 700x44 Snoqualimie pass tires (measure more like 43 on the rimset I tried) I have 5-6 on the front and on the rear it's more like 4mm and I might end up dishing the wheel to make sure it's even on both sides. I've been squeezing the largest tires I can in frames for awhile now and have not had any trouble with a lot less clearance than that. I also tried a 650bx48 and got 2mm on either side but I'm planning for the 700x44.

Been shopping for bottom brackets, had to take a crash course with all the options out there these days. This bike uses a PF30 with outboard bearings. I like the ones that thread together in the center and several are all in the 110g range, White Industries, BB Infinite, Rotor, and Cane Creek. May spring for the ceramic, seems right for a lightweight bike. Maybe with an uber light. bike and ceramic bearings, I can outrun my friend, Tom?

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nickf
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

With retaining compound there is no need to use thread together bb's. Just use standard pf cups to save some grams. For me hawk full stainless pf30 bb's last absolutely forever and have some of the smoothest bearings I have ever used. Ceramic, meh.

xixang
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm

by xixang

nickf wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:01 am
With retaining compound there is no need to use thread together bb's. Just use standard pf cups to save some grams. For me hawk full stainless pf30 bb's last absolutely forever and have some of the smoothest bearings I have ever used. Ceramic, meh.
Hmm, hadn't heard of Hawk before, I love finding a new supplier. Maybe you can help me understand the PF30 with ourboard vs. inboard bearings? My Parlee has a 68mm wide shell and came with outboard bearings (happened to be for 24mm spindle). In addition to the Hawk being recommended by you, it's also about 20g lighter than the outboard models I've been looking at but maybe that's normal for inboard bearings since whole assembly is narrower? On the Hawk website I only see an option for PF30 inboard bbhttps://www.hawk-racing.com/product/bb30-pressfit/. I had ordered an Easton EC90 SL crankse, it just arrived, pic below.

My real question is whether anyone chooses to run inboard bearings on a bike that came with outboard? My guess would be that I would then need lots of spacers on my crank which could look weird. OR... I could source a more narrow spindle, I read a post about someone using Cannondale spindles on the Easton/Raceface cranks. I don't have a huge preference for Q-factor but if my frame is more designed for the wider spindle and outboard bearings, the crankarms might get close to the chainstays or worse my heels might hit the chainstays? So yeah, what's the deal with PF30 inboard vs. outboard? Thanks!

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xixang
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm

by xixang

More parts showing up, I could be ready for a test assembly here soon! I've been watching Dangerholm (amazing) and ETOE (end-to-end in Germany) on stripping paint from Carbon. The ETOE guy is HILARIOUS! So is Dangerholm, is it a german bike thing? Anyways... their advice on stripping paint from carbon is pretty accurate. I would say the knife method is mandatory. Without it I would have had to sand more into the carbon to get tight spots and it just saves time sanding, had to make sure to keep the knife blade perpendicular to the fork to avoid cutting the carbon. A LOT of work, I'll probably finish the fork but with multiple jobs and children, I am thinking to enlist someone elses help with the frame. Not sure if a completely naked frame would be in order but I've never liked red, only bought it cause it was a deal. Sub 14 pounds and POSSIBLY sub 6kg is looking very likely here. A few pics of the fork and front end parts so far. Cane Creek AER headset is a neat piece of kit for sure. I'm not sure if there is a lighter pair of hubs that Extralite Cyber?

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sib
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:03 am

by sib

Following this with interest!

Do you have real-life weights on the Extralite thru axles?
And what sort of weight-reduction are you expecting by stripping the paint??

xixang
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm

by xixang

sib wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:11 am
Following this with interest!

Do you have real-life weights on the Extralite thru axles?
And what sort of weight-reduction are you expecting by stripping the paint??
Extralite axles are 21g and 29g. The J&L on eBay are supposed to be the same but the Extralite have an interesting theft deterrent where the hex to remove is on the OTHER threaded side.

Frame ended up at 1013g including rear dropouts only. I've heard frame paint can be 150-200g and I'd guess maybe 30g for the fork. The fork sanding I did took me 2 hours (learning curve) and shaved off 10g. Parlee said 870-980g for their frames. I know the people weighing the new CruX are saying the weight is higher than listed, I think manufacturers are advertising weights unpainted maybe? Everyone has to draw their weightweenie line somewhere, I'm not planing to run a naked frame. Supposedly not a good idea either due to UV rays. So even stripped it would be wise to add back on a light coat of clear, or I've heard of a wax product. I also head cerakote is insanely light so that's an option. I'm currently thinking about a 'light" paintjob that starts on the front and "disintigrates" into bare carbon in the rear. We'll see.

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Mirco
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:09 pm

by Mirco

At the end, this bike will be at 7,0 kg.

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ryanw
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Location: London

by ryanw

My UPPER is pretty much maxed out and comes in at 6.76kg with 160g of sealant and my frame is 100g lighter than yours.

A proper gravel bike with 11-40T, robust components and a PM.

Best of luck getting to 6.5kg ready to ride :thumbup:
SL7 S-Works - 6.59kg
OPEN U.P.P.E.R. - 6.76kg
www.rhinosworkshop.co.uk
IG: RhinosWorkshop

Maddie
Posts: 922
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:44 am

by Maddie

Nice build! Don't want to spoil the party but sub 6kg is not going to happen. Sub 6.5kg yes, but also challenging on a gravel build.

My Aethos was somewhere around 5.7-5.8kg with superlight wheels and tires, DA, carbon cranks and everything. Frame alone more than 400g less, fork almost 150g, tire setup another 400g. That's already almost a full kg.

Martin from etoe doesn't recommend knifes to remove paint. He sanded frames starting with 350 grit sandpaper. But he now moved on to blasting media, probably something soft like nutshells. Either way, compared to metal frames, there's always a lot of work involved with carbon frames. I did it several times too. My first frame never got any surface treatment after sanding it down to 800 grit. No wax, no clearcoat. And it sees plenty of sunlight. Looks the same since two years. Epoxy from manufacturing probably has UV blockers in it.

BTW, dangerholm is from Sweden. And surely a great guy!

xixang
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm

by xixang

Hey thanks everyone, I would love to get some input on my plan! I'll post my build sheet with weight estimates below. Ryanw just wanted to say that your Open Upper is AWESOME and I see you also like the Rene Herse tires. Running the extralights has probably changed my ride quality more than anything else and I haven't had much trouble as some people have. I've put thousands of miles on them and they're on all my bikes.

As for any particular weight goal, it seems more about splitting hairs and what compromises a person is willing to accept. Andreszucs documented his 12.7lb/5760g Cervelo gravel bike on this forum viewtopic.php?f=4&t=165270&sid=9835e025 ... 1ea155dce7. His compromises that I would not choose would be the lever choice, tubular setup, tire clearance, 140 rotors, and cassette range but nonetheless his build stands as the lightest gravel/all-road bike. My obvious compromises include no power meter and no clutch derailleur. This build below sits very close to 6000g but two choices that I think are unlikey to stay are the saddle and Tubolito tubes. I plan to "try" the tubolitos but can't imagine they will last long and when they go, I'll switch to sealant. The other lightweight choice that probably won't stay is the saddle, I'll likely install my preferred Specialized Mirror 143 @ 195g. Drivetrain range at 400% will suit the terrain here and my riding style.

In addition I know there are always missing grams and I also plan to paint a few parts. If I can get under 6500 including my comfortable saddle, comfortable shimano levers, and comfortable Rene Herse tires then the only thing left will be to see how durable this combination proves to be.

Maddie that's helpful to hear that you ran bare carbon with no issues. I admit that I am looking at my frame and NOT wanting to do it! I'm going to see about sourcing the cherry pit blasting media and using a blast cabinet at a friend's business.

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xixang
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm

by xixang

Pretty much all parts have arrived, didn't expect them all so quickly. At this point my attention is on finishes. I completed sanding my fork (402g). It was a good learning experience (walnut shell blasting, wet sanding) and I am planning to let a professional finish the frame since I'm not a painter, I have a deposit in with Black Magic Paint. I'm going for a retro look with silver parts. This is going to be some work. I'm planning a combination of automotive grade satin silver paint for a few carbon components and strip/re-anodize silver for several of the aluminum parts except for the hubs, I may powdercoat. Also may strip and polish a few parts. Changing all the black parts to silver is a real chore but it's just the vision I have for the bike, hope it's worth it! As soon as I have rims and hubs complete, Berd will assembly the wheelset with their spokes. Then I can do a test assembly. Will probably be a few months to get my frame done and we'll see how long the parts color change takes. Here's a pic of all of the parts (except rims and rear hub).

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sib
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:03 am

by sib

Very cool - looking forward to more pics as you make progress!

I see you've gone for a Darimo seatpost.
Was there a reason you didn't want to get a Darimo stem and handlebars as well?

by Weenie


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