1x Campagnolo Ekar drivetrain

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evildead
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by evildead

Not sure if this was discussed already, but is anyone using a bike with Ekar on a direct drive turbo trainer? It looks like none of the major brands sells a N3W freehub for their trainers for now...

gwerziou
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by gwerziou

evildead wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:23 pm
Not sure if this was discussed already, but is anyone using a bike with Ekar on a direct drive turbo trainer? It looks like none of the major brands sells a N3W freehub for their trainers for now...
Yikes, that's a problem!
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RyanH
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by RyanH

I spent this week riding Ekar on the road and I must say, 1x13 with a 44T (9-36) is pretty close to being suitable for road riding. I did a fast (30mph) group ride yesterday and the gearing was spot on for that and today I sucked wheel behind our local retired pro PG for a handful of minutes before I blew up but I'm most picky about gearing when doing 400w on a low grade incline and found that I was able to get my cadence right where I wanted it. It's basically like having 53/34 and 11-28 which is pretty cool. So far this week, the only time I've really noticed the jumps was when I was riding up a 10% grade with tonytourist up to the Hollywood sign and I was inbetween gears at the pace we were doing near the top of the cassette.

I don't have much feedback on the 9t though as I did admittedly get dropped yesterday but that was more of a me problem (I felt pretty off the day before) coupled with my awesome tubeless tires going down to 20 PSI mid ride and my poor decision to keep the wind breaker on. Frankly, I didn't notice it and we were definitely at a pace that I was using it (>30mph).
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StiffWeenies
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by StiffWeenies

Does anyone know if Chorus chainrings work with Ekar? I believe you can fit Chorus outer chainrings onto Ekar crank arms because they're both 123mm BCD. But does the Ekar 13s chain work with the tooth profile of Chorus 12s chainring?

A 48T Chorus outer chainring paired with the 9-36T Ekar cassette would make for a great 1x setup.

TribesMan
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by TribesMan

Chorus chainrings are not "narrow-wide", so you will have problems keeping the chain on the chainring...

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andreszucs
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by andreszucs

TribesMan wrote:Chorus chainrings are not "narrow-wide", so you will have problems keeping the chain on the chainring...
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RyanH
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by RyanH

Also, 48T is a tad aggressive, no? That's like running 58x11.
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StiffWeenies
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by StiffWeenies

RyanH wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:13 pm
Also, 48T is a tad aggressive, no? That's like running 58x11.
I wanted to retain the Ekar crank arms and 48T is the smallest 12s Chorus outer chainring out there. Ratio is supposedly going to come out with a 1x13 brifter conversion in the future so everything seemed to work out in my head. My original plan was to build this Ekar/Chorus setup on an Allez Sprint X1 frameset I have lying around for a 1x mechanical crit bike, but it doesn't matter now that I've learned that Chorus chainrings aren't compatible with Ekar chains. This leads me to my backup option which is the Ingrid groupset.

RyanH
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by RyanH

Has anyone else had intermittent shifting issues? Going to the 2nd to largest cog can hesitate at times and I've had a few downshifts that didn't want to go. I'm running Jagwire full length housing since I couldn't find any Campy full length housing so that may be a factor.
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gwerziou
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by gwerziou

StiffWeenies wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:31 pm
RyanH wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:13 pm
Also, 48T is a tad aggressive, no? That's like running 58x11.
I wanted to retain the Ekar crank arms and 48T is the smallest 12s Chorus outer chainring out there. Ratio is supposedly going to come out with a 1x13 brifter conversion in the future so everything seemed to work out in my head. My original plan was to build this Ekar/Chorus setup on an Allez Sprint X1 frameset I have lying around for a 1x mechanical crit bike, but it doesn't matter now that I've learned that Chorus chainrings aren't compatible with Ekar chains. This leads me to my backup option which is the Ingrid groupset.
Tell us more about this Ratio conversion! This would enable, I presume, current 12 speed brifters to work with Ekar?
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StiffWeenies
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by StiffWeenies

gwerziou wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:53 pm
StiffWeenies wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:31 pm
RyanH wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:13 pm
Also, 48T is a tad aggressive, no? That's like running 58x11.
I wanted to retain the Ekar crank arms and 48T is the smallest 12s Chorus outer chainring out there. Ratio is supposedly going to come out with a 1x13 brifter conversion in the future so everything seemed to work out in my head. My original plan was to build this Ekar/Chorus setup on an Allez Sprint X1 frameset I have lying around for a 1x mechanical crit bike, but it doesn't matter now that I've learned that Chorus chainrings aren't compatible with Ekar chains. This leads me to my backup option which is the Ingrid groupset.
Tell us more about this Ratio conversion! This would enable, I presume, current 12 speed brifters to work with Ekar?
I messaged them and they replied saying that they will come out with 1x13 and 2x12 kits for SRAM 1x11 and 2x11 brifters. Nothing to do with Campagnolo's existing 2x12 brifters.

bmCube
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by bmCube

RyanH wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:52 pm
Has anyone else had intermittent shifting issues? Going to the 2nd to largest cog can hesitate at times and I've had a few downshifts that didn't want to go. I'm running Jagwire full length housing since I couldn't find any Campy full length housing so that may be a factor.
Maybe look at the reach of your shift paddle. I also had some problems with shifting, but it was the paddle who was to close to the brake lever, so it got stuck sometimes. I've set it up slightly more inwards than adviced, but it works perfect now. I'm also running non campy full length housing.

robertbb
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by robertbb

I have StiffWeenies' question in reverse - if I have a Chorus 12s crank, can I swap out the 2x chainrings and put on an Ekar 1x chainring (on the outer position)?

The 123bcd seems to match up...

Aesthetically the two cranks seem identical with different branding BUT there's obviously a difference with one being Ultra Torque and one being Pro Torque.

RyanH
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by RyanH

I think you'll want to check to see if there's a difference in chainline. Wolf tooth offsets 1x rings by 4mm or so inward for regular road cranks.
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eurperg
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by eurperg

I disassembled the Ekar rear derailleur today, and here are some pics:

INA Germany HF0812 one way needle roller bearing lets the cage move rearward but not forward:
Image

The clutch cover compresses these two concave shims a.k.a. clutch discs together and against the main clutch plate, and cage forward movement is damped by the resulting friction. The clutch friction can be actually adjusted by how or tightly the clutch cover is tightened. Campagnolo just tells to tighten it to 2Nm with loctite. The type of grease used to lubricate the discs also has a noticeable effect on the initial stiction level.
Image

Big ass spring:
Image

My derailleur was missing the sealing ring from between the cage and pivot, and the spring was really dirty when I opened the assembly. For some reason the clutch also does not look the similar as in Campagnolo's jockey cage replacement tech manual.

The cage pivot and clutch plates felt really sticky before I disassembled the derailleur, but cleaning and greasing everything made the clutch feel a lot smoother.

I also made a second hole to the jockey cage for the spring in 180° position, but preloading the spring only 180° instead of 360° did not provide enough chain tension when on three smallest cogs. So I had to put the spring back to the original hole.

By using a fish scale and a piece of string, I measured how much tension is needed to pull the derailleur cage from the smallest cog position to 90°(perpendicular) position and keep it there:

Ekar: 3,44 kg
Sram XX1: 2,62 kg
Ultegra RX: 1,84 kg

So Ekar definitely has the stiffest spring and is consequently causing more drivetrain friction, which can also be felt by rotating the cranks by hand. The difference must be several watts and it’s hella annoying.

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