1x Campagnolo Ekar drivetrain

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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eurperg
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by eurperg

According to BikeRumor article about Campagnolo's patents, Ekar derailleur doesn't seem to have a clutch at all, just a stiff spring:
What about a clutch?
Well, the word “clutch” doesn’t show up in this patent filing. But there is an “anti-impact spring” (25) that surrounds the main rotational point where the derailleur bolts on to the hanger. This is intended to absorb the forces of an impact, helping the derailleur live to shift another day.
And what Campagnolo calls a "Clutch lock" just locks the freely rotating mounting pivot in a certain position. Confusing, probably because of patent issues...

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andreszucs
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by andreszucs

Stopping by again supporting the use of external wireless shifting like archer components or x-shifter + SRAM flat top chain:

Conversations that become irrelevant:

-RD spring tension (motor does the job for you)
-Clunky feel on lever (press of a button instead)
-Chairing limitation (much wider range of rings and cranks available with Sram chain)

Other Benefits

-you can use ANY RD of your liking
-precision shifting all the time.

Good day….


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gorkypl
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by gorkypl

eurperg wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:33 am
According to BikeRumor article about Campagnolo's patents, Ekar derailleur doesn't seem to have a clutch at all, just a stiff spring:
What about a clutch?
Well, the word “clutch” doesn’t show up in this patent filing. But there is an “anti-impact spring” (25) that surrounds the main rotational point where the derailleur bolts on to the hanger. This is intended to absorb the forces of an impact, helping the derailleur live to shift another day.
And what Campagnolo calls a "Clutch lock" just locks the freely rotating mounting pivot in a certain position. Confusing, probably because of patent issues...
Having this RD in hand right now, I tend to agree. It doesn't feel exactly like a clutch, but more a tensioned spring with just *some* friction added (however, there is definitely some friction that is not present in non-clutched RDs I have around).
Comparing to Record 12 mechanical the Ekar cage spring is *much* stronger, but just *a bit* stronger than Ultegra RX without clutch enabled. This is purely based on feel, I don't have any scale around to check the actual force values. Enabling clutch on Ultegra RX makes it harder to move than Ekar, but it's a definite clutch feeling (just friction, not spring tension).

Said that, I am a bit puzzled by the sensation of significantly more force required to turn the cranks mentioned by eurperg above. Not having Ekar mounted anywhere yet, I tensioned the Ultegra cage by hand, and could not feel measurable difference in the effort needed to turn the cranks backwards. Maybe something else is in play too?
Last edited by gorkypl on Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cinelli Superstar Disc - Record 12s

gorkypl
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by gorkypl

andreszucs wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:15 pm
Stopping by again supporting the use of external wireless shifting like archer components or x-shifter + SRAM flat top chain:
Nice, but if I wanted to use electronic shifting, I'd go straight to SRAM XPLR. For me, the one biggest advantage of Ekar is that it is mechanical. Spending all my life in front of a computer, I want my bike to operate without any electronic components. This is also the reason I sold almost new Di2 group on my road bike and put mechanical Record on it.
Cinelli Superstar Disc - Record 12s

romanmoser
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by romanmoser

don't know I am to cheap for ingrid

henryz4
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by henryz4

gwerziou wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:04 pm
This is interesting: https://ingrid.bike/product/rear-derailleur-rd-12r/
Ingrid makes 1x rear derailleur models specifically adjusted to work with either Campy road or Ekar derailleurs, but - Ekar running on a 12 speed cassette?
I am missing the point of this. A new derailleur that needs Ekar shifter but works with 12 speed cassette. Why chopping one cog from ekar cassette?

henryz4
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by henryz4

just jumped across this blog news where a gabaruk chainring has been used with ekar.. some comatibilities for our ekar?
https://litespeed.com/blogs/litespeed-s ... atia-build

gwerziou
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by gwerziou

henryz4 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:16 pm
gwerziou wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:04 pm
This is interesting: https://ingrid.bike/product/rear-derailleur-rd-12r/
Ingrid makes 1x rear derailleur models specifically adjusted to work with either Campy road or Ekar derailleurs, but - Ekar running on a 12 speed cassette?
I am missing the point of this. A new derailleur that needs Ekar shifter but works with 12 speed cassette. Why chopping one cog from ekar cassette?
Their Ekar-specific derailleur must be set to respond to Ekar cable pull to fit one of the Ingrid 12 speed cassettes - I would think a 13 speed version must be in the works, maybe when or if they release a 13 speed cassette.
So the deal here seems to be that you can use your fave Campy shifter and run one of Ingrid's bigger 12 speed cassettes on a 1x system with a clutch derailleur. It is a clutch derailleur, I think? In that case I would probably just use a road shifter though.
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gwerziou
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by gwerziou

henryz4 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:57 pm
just jumped across this blog news where a gabaruk chainring has been used with ekar.. some comatibilities for our ekar?
https://litespeed.com/blogs/litespeed-s ... atia-build
I emailed Garbaruk when this article came out and they responded that no, they are not producing an Ekar chainring, that Michael Eichinger filed down one of their chainrings to work. If some guy can take a file and make it work, one would think that they themselves could easily accomplish this as well, but whatever. Sad!
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• An old bike, still pretty fun to ride
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henryz4
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by henryz4

gwerziou wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:08 pm
henryz4 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:16 pm
gwerziou wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:04 pm
This is interesting: https://ingrid.bike/product/rear-derailleur-rd-12r/
Ingrid makes 1x rear derailleur models specifically adjusted to work with either Campy road or Ekar derailleurs, but - Ekar running on a 12 speed cassette?
I am missing the point of this. A new derailleur that needs Ekar shifter but works with 12 speed cassette. Why chopping one cog from ekar cassette?
Their Ekar-specific derailleur must be set to respond to Ekar cable pull to fit one of the Ingrid 12 speed cassettes - I would think a 13 speed version must be in the works, maybe when or if they release a 13 speed cassette.
So the deal here seems to be that you can use your fave Campy shifter and run one of Ingrid's bigger 12 speed cassettes on a 1x system with a clutch derailleur. It is a clutch derailleur, I think? In that case I would probably just use a road shifter though.
exactly.. that was my exact thought..

Yoln
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by Yoln

Looks like Wolftooth is manufacturing chairings for 3T Torno crankset that are said to be Ekar13 compatible.

That said it doesn't help with any crank based PM approach...

What is interesting though, is that 3T calls the chairing Ekar compatible:
https://us.3t.bike/en/spare-parts/acces ... g-570.html

But Wolftooth doesn't on their website:
https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/pro ... r-3t-torno

They describe it compatible with any 10,11 and 12S chain, just like they do with all of their other Drop-Stop chainrings. So, is there hope that even though Wolftooth doesn't call them compatible with Ekar yet, all of the other Wolftooth "Drop-Stop" 1x chainring are indeed compatible?
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RyanH
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by RyanH

@Yoln there was discussion above regarding that and basically WT said that they have no idea why 3T is saying that.

With that being said, I have a WT coming tomorrow to see if I can modify since the BOR ring was a no go.
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NickJHP
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by NickJHP

Yoln wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:57 pm
They describe it compatible with any 10,11 and 12S chain, just like they do with all of their other Drop-Stop chainrings. So, is there hope that even though Wolftooth doesn't call them compatible with Ekar yet, all of the other Wolftooth "Drop-Stop" 1x chainring are indeed compatible?
I don't think so. On the N-W 10/11/12-speed chainrings I have, the narrow teeth are 2mm thick. On the 12/13-speed Ratio Technologies N-W ring I have, the narrow teeth are 1.8mm thick. My vernier calipers measure the internal width between the inner plates on the Ekar chain as 1.9mm. So unless you reduce the thickness of the chainring teeth, it won't fit on a chainring with narrow teeth that are 2mm wide.

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bobrayner
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by bobrayner

Since we're ploughing the same old field again, does anyone know of potential aftermarket Ekar cassettes?

I'd like an option of more 13 more closely-spaced gears. Maybe not a corncob-like road cassette (though Campag will surely sell 13-speed Record in a year or two), but something like 10-40 or 10-36 would be good for faster courses, flatter areas, and forestry trails.

(Maybe even cyclocross? I'm not a CX rider per se, but my first gravel bike was really just a CX bike, with SRAM 11-36, put to a new use...)
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Yoln
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by Yoln

Thanks guys. Sorry about that. Looking forward to your feedback @ryanH
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