1x Campagnolo Ekar drivetrain

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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Butcher
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by Butcher

I'm always impressed that with the cassette spacing, anything more than 11 can shift with little problems. Since Ekar has 13, that is just impressive. I would think the system would have to set up perfectly with little room for error or else it would be bad, as in real bad.

I would take the random bad review to be a set up issue.

by Weenie


raggedtrousers
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by raggedtrousers

Has anyone tried to run Ekar 9-36 and 9-42 cassettes without adjusting the chain length? I know official advice from Campag is it will cope with a 4t total change, so you could swap 9-42 and 10-44 without issue but not 9-36 and 9-42, but has anyone actually tried this? Reason for question: 1 bike, 2 wheelsets; 1 for road and 1 for gravel.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

raggedtrousers wrote:Has anyone tried to run Ekar 9-36 and 9-42 cassettes without adjusting the chain length? I know official advice from Campag is it will cope with a 4t total change, so you could swap 9-42 and 10-44 without issue but not 9-36 and 9-42, but has anyone actually tried this? Reason for question: 1 bike, 2 wheelsets; 1 for road and 1 for gravel.
I think Campag have covered this bearing in mind they have released Ekar with a quick link.


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Marin
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by Marin

raggedtrousers wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 10:33 am
Has anyone tried to run Ekar 9-36 and 9-42 cassettes without adjusting the chain length? I know official advice from Campag is it will cope with a 4t total change, so you could swap 9-42 and 10-44 without issue but not 9-36 and 9-42, but has anyone actually tried this? Reason for question: 1 bike, 2 wheelsets; 1 for road and 1 for gravel.
Since Ekar copied the horizontally swinging paralellogram from Sram 1x - which positions the upper pulley via chain tension - a smaller cassette than the max allowed one *has* to work.

The derailleur will autmatically adjust to every possible cog size within the possible range: A larger cog takes up more chain, the lower part of the chain gets shorter, the lower pulley is pulled forward and the cage thus moves the upper pulley down to accomodate the larger cog. Same thing in reverse when shifting to a smalle cog.

Funny idea: You could build a cassette with the smallest cog inboard and the largest one to the right and it should still work with any X-Horizon derailleur or copy.

At least that's my theory based upon extensive experience with running 11-28 to 9-46 cassettes on the same long cage 1x derailleurs.

raggedtrousers
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by raggedtrousers

Marin wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 11:52 am
raggedtrousers wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 10:33 am
Has anyone tried to run Ekar 9-36 and 9-42 cassettes without adjusting the chain length? I know official advice from Campag is it will cope with a 4t total change, so you could swap 9-42 and 10-44 without issue but not 9-36 and 9-42, but has anyone actually tried this? Reason for question: 1 bike, 2 wheelsets; 1 for road and 1 for gravel.
Since Ekar copied the horizontally swinging paralellogram from Sram 1x - which positions the upper pulley via chain tension - a smaller cassette than the max allowed one *has* to work.

The derailleur will autmatically adjust to every possible cog size within the possible range: A larger cog takes up more chain, the lower part of the chain gets shorter, the lower pulley is pulled forward and the cage thus moves the upper pulley down to accomodate the larger cog. Same thing in reverse when shifting to a smalle cog.

Funny idea: You could build a cassette with the smallest cog inboard and the largest one to the right and it should still work with any X-Horizon derailleur or copy.

At least that's my theory based upon extensive experience with running 11-28 to 9-46 cassettes on the same long cage 1x derailleurs.
That's an interesting theory, and makes sense. I would have thought, though, if it *did* work, Campag wouldn't be shy about it, as it's a selling point!

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

RDY wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:20 am
bm0p700f wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:25 am
Bcd choice is about chainset spec. It not proprietry for the sake of it. Its to.optimise performace.

145 bcd is used because it reduces ring flex. With super record i learnt/reminded of today the spider is made to be distinctive from record but allow a thinner lighter ring. Record lacks the spider links that super record has. This means record has thicker heavier rings.

You're telling me that they introduced a new 145BCD because they had to, from an engineering perspective? 🤣😂 144BCD is a standard.

I know what you mean re Record vs Super Record, but they use the same BCD. And those links have little functional difference. The crank, theoretically, will flex marginally less, the chainring won't. Also if you look at testing, there's barely any difference in the stiffness between R and SR ... I forget where, but testing has been done - both are about as flexy as it gets for modern high end cranks. In reality the difference is cosmetic / marketing.
Unfortunately you are wrong in your interpretation ...

144 is "a" standard but not "the" standard. Often, manufacturers will not use another maker's dimensions to avoid the problem that the other makers product might then be used and found wanting, so degrade the perception of the product in the market - we see this with 11s cassettes all the time, for instance, with SH 11v cassettes being run on CA systems and vice-versa - with users complaining of noise.

The essential point is that RE and SR have the same stiffness at the periphery of the ring.
4-arm from all the makers is about how to optimise chainring stiffness for ever-larger percentage differences in chainring sizes, when users persist in trying to shift at high torque values ...

The choice was, heavier stiffer ring, no webs, or webs and a lighter ring.

Overall weight difference favours the webs and the slightly thinner ring but the moulding is more expensive and the layup more complex. Hence, both for that reason and for reasons of range differentiation, the decision was taken to use one design for RE, the other for SR.

The outer rings are different and not interchangeable - EPS shifting does not work correctly, if the wrong outer ring is fitted - we have already had ex team bikes through, where teams have put RE rings on SR EPS bikes to get them out of the door, that don't work properly ... inner rings are the same.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

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bobrayner
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by bobrayner

Campagnolo seem to have supply-chain difficulties. My bike shop doesn't have an ETA yet for a chainset and cassette - the whole groupset was ordered in January.

However, 3T now say explicitly that their Torno chainrings are Ekar-compatible. 3T Torno could be a good option for some folk who are still waiting for a Campagnolo chainset and happy to spend extra on carbon-fibre upgrades.

Has anybody started making aftermarket cassettes yet? Edco and IRD say "Not yet" and I haven't heard back from BBB yet. Are Miche asleep? Surely this would be a perfect product for Miche.
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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

bobrayner wrote:Campagnolo seem to have supply-chain difficulties. My bike shop doesn't have an ETA yet for a chainset and cassette - the whole groupset was ordered in January.

However, 3T now say explicitly that their Torno chainrings are Ekar-compatible. 3T Torno could be a good option for some folk who are still waiting for a Campagnolo chainset and happy to spend extra on carbon-fibre upgrades.

Has anybody started making aftermarket cassettes yet? Edco and IRD say "Not yet" and I haven't heard back from BBB yet. Are Miche asleep? Surely this would be a perfect product for Miche.
Everyone is having supply chain issues. Demand for all levels of parts is through the roof, especially entry to mid level parts. Our first drops of Ekar were stripped out almost overnight, prompting us to ring fence some of it to accommodate our bike build customers.


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Toby
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by Toby

bobrayner wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:07 pm
Campagnolo seem to have supply-chain difficulties. My bike shop doesn't have an ETA yet for a chainset and cassette - the whole groupset was ordered in January.

However, 3T now say explicitly that their Torno chainrings are Ekar-compatible. 3T Torno could be a good option for some folk who are still waiting for a Campagnolo chainset and happy to spend extra on carbon-fibre upgrades.

Has anybody started making aftermarket cassettes yet? Edco and IRD say "Not yet" and I haven't heard back from BBB yet. Are Miche asleep? Surely this would be a perfect product for Miche.
I emailed Wolf Tooth asking if this meant their other chainrings were Ekar-compatible. Here's their reply:

"Thanks for reaching out. Unfortunately none of our chainring tooth profiles are compatible with Ekar.

We have told 3T multiple times that our chainring is not compatible with Ekar, but they seem to not have updated that information."

Looks like that would be an expensive and risky experiment.

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eurperg
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by eurperg

Does anyone know if it’s possible to adjust the derailleur clutch spring tension?
I would rather hear an occasional chain slap and save some watts than feel the chain being under unnecessarily high tension all the time. The difference in drivetrain friction when compared to square taper Record 10 groupset is just ridiculous!

bikewithnoname
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by bikewithnoname

You're not really comparing apples there, the spring tension on on your 2008 (?) record 10 RD is probably a strong as boiled spaghetti these days😉

But in answer to your question its not natively adjustable. It may be hackable but given how new it is I've not seen anyone trying this yet
"We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities." Oscar Wilde
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