XTR di2 M8050 vs Ultegra R8050 RD for CX/Gravel

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2790
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Dealers use this list

http://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com/2. ... acid=C-186

As i got it explained, that which is not marked as compatible, isn't according to Shimano dealers, service center aso.

I don't say it isn't, but this is what i info i got.

Mrapido, oh i am amazed!!
That would probably be considered true hardcore.
How did you manage to get all this assembled?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


motorapido
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:08 pm

by motorapido

From that info it looks like you could interpret it that Shimano condone mixing systems as long as an element from each part of the system is used.

i know that as long as a climbing electronics module is used any number of momentary switches can be wired into it in parallel and they will shift up or down without issues, as long as you use Etube to assign the shift duty.

Also that as long as you don't mix road and MTB mechs then it will all work without issues.

Here are some pics which show some of the mods,i have run.

Version 1 for MTB using a SRAM clutch and custom cage,
ImageIMG_4655 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr

Version 2 for MTB Shimano clutch and XTM8000 cage,
ImageIMG_4778 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr
With Alfine Shifter,
Image
IMG_4779 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr

Original CX setup with Radr cage,
ImageIMG_4762 by Paul Townsend, on FlickrImageIMG_4804 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr

Momentary switch Shifter on CX build, the grubscrew allows the free travel of the Sram paddle to be tuned and the spring ensure that the mechanism can't be overloaded and damaged in a crash etc.
ImageIMG_4946 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr
ImageIMG_4949 by Paul Townsend, on FlickrImageIMG_4943 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr

Current setup uses momentary switches, the electronics module from a climbing shifter, EW90 junction A and XT Di2 rear mech.
Image
IMG_5037 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr

Road bike hack, grafting Shimano Ultegra Di2 levers to Sram HydroR lever bodies,
ImageIMG_4879 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr

All fits neatly where the Doubletap mechanism used to sit,
ImageIMG_4886 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr

Remote bar top climbing shifters and sprint shifters all linked to one climbing electronics,
ImageIMG_4926 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr

Road bike pre E-tube Durarace ISWR610 sprint shifters linked to climbing electronics,
ImageIMG_5137 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr
Last edited by motorapido on Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

dmcgoy
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:23 pm

by dmcgoy

I was going to say reminds me a lot of this article - http://www.cxmagazine.com/shimano-ulteg ... -chainring. Then I checked the names....

Very cool stuff. I assume you still need to custom fabricate parts to get a clutch onto a Ultegra Di2 derailleur?

motorapido
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:08 pm

by motorapido

Yeah thats my original setup, the only way to get a clutch onto Ultegra is custom parts,

It also ran a more heavily modified brake setup where i modified Formula RX brakes to fit onto the road bars and modified the Ultegra Di2 levers to operate the master cylinder, It meant making some carbon fibre and model board brake lever bodies to match the Ultegra hood and ended up being one of those project where once into there was no going back.
It worked well but i scored a really good deal on some SRAM HydroR rim brakes and wound up fitting my updated setup which is actually operating formula RX / R1 brake callipers.

For the mech, you could attack it from a different angle and fit a Saint or Zee short cage onto an XT mech giving you a Clutch and shorter cage for a 1X setup. Given time it should be fairly easy to replicate the Ultegra front mech cage to graft onto an XT front mech and that could probably work out as more reliable option, for a clutched 2x setup as the XT mech's motors are stronger than Ultegra.
Last edited by motorapido on Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2790
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Ah, Paul, come on, you're a true genius and i gladly admit, i could never pull this through.
I would never even try!
I am amazed of your customisation and my guess is that you easily could work at Sram, Shimano or Campa.
Your work is what CX and gravel bikers probably would buy.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

raggi
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:43 pm

by raggi

Super interesting stuff @motorapido! Awesome to know what's possible if people have the guts to push the boundaries.

ooo
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

@motorapido, is it possible to take off original knukle from ultegra without destoying it (to install it back later) ?
'

motorapido
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:08 pm

by motorapido

Yes it is completely feasible to remove and refit the original knuckle, the upper link pin is driven in from the underside when the mech is viewed from above so you will need to work out where it is and then drill a small pilot hole opposite it in the top of the knuckle face see image and then use a hammer and hard small diameter pin or punch to drive the pin out, the Knuckle itself is plastic, so easy to drill, and you will know when you hit the hard steel pin.

ImageIMG_4709 by Paul Townsend, on Flickr

This pin is fluted and swaged at one end so will need to be refitted in the correct orientation.

The lower link pin, ( the one on the steel driven arm) is an aluminium rivet, just drill or grind the peened over end off remove it and if you discard the washer this could be reused. it is a non-standard diameter i think its 3.5mm, but you can use a smaller diameter rivet, from memory its either 2.5mm or possibly 3.0 and get thin walled brass tube off ebay to sleeve the rivet and get it to the correct OD.

i'm pretty sure i've got set of parts for a 10 speed mech spare in the garage, or at least the pivot pin parts PM if you a re interested.

i also have a spare 10speed mech fully built with a Radr cage if anyones interested in a Di2 10 speed clutch mech.

wrenegade
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:36 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

by wrenegade

Bumping this thread cause I haven't been able to get a definitive answer elsewhere, hoping for luck here.

Situation: Currently running 1x with XT M8050 di2 rear derailler and R8070 di2 shifters. 40T up front, and I've used both 11-34T and 11-40T cassettes out back. Works great, love it. Haven't raced cross with it but I'm looking foward to it. However, I'm searching for a little more speed on the flats, and don't really want to give up the 1:1 ratio. I could swap to a 44T chainring (cannondale spidering), but again, don't want to loose that easy gear.

So, can I run an R8050 di2 front derailleur with the M8050 di2 rear derailleur? Look's like if I'm running old firmware maybe I can? Or was that just for the 6800 series? I'd love to be able to throw on a front derailleur and a 50/34 spidering (I have a brand new one sitting in a drawer) and run an 11-34T out back for gravel/winter road, and then just swap chainrings and pull the front derailleur, tune shifting via E-tube and race cross September-November. Is this possible or am I dreaming? It seems like if I were to swap the XT rear derailler for the RX805 I'd be fine (but thats another expensive part). But I can't run the M8050 di2 front derailleur cause it can't handle 50/34 chainrings?

User avatar
TonyM
Posts: 3215
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

Afaik you can have in the Di2 etube a road FD and a road RD or (!) a MTB FD and a MTB RD.

The problem with a MTB FD (2x) and a road crankset will be the chain line I suppose as the MTB and the road cranksets have different q-factors.

Interested to see what the other think..

ooo
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

xtr di2 prototype derailleurs was compatible with road 9070/6870 derailleurs, final firmware do not support this
xt di2 derailleurs was nether compatible with road derailleurs
r8050/r9150 derailleurs was nether compatible with mtb derailleurs
'

Hex
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:30 am

by Hex

wrenegade wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 4:45 am
Bumping this thread cause I haven't been able to get a definitive answer elsewhere, hoping for luck here.

Situation: Currently running 1x with XT M8050 di2 rear derailler and R8070 di2 shifters. 40T up front, and I've used both 11-34T and 11-40T cassettes out back. Works great, love it. Haven't raced cross with it but I'm looking foward to it. However, I'm searching for a little more speed on the flats, and don't really want to give up the 1:1 ratio. I could swap to a 44T chainring (cannondale spidering), but again, don't want to loose that easy gear.

So, can I run an R8050 di2 front derailleur with the M8050 di2 rear derailleur? Look's like if I'm running old firmware maybe I can? Or was that just for the 6800 series? I'd love to be able to throw on a front derailleur and a 50/34 spidering (I have a brand new one sitting in a drawer) and run an 11-34T out back for gravel/winter road, and then just swap chainrings and pull the front derailleur, tune shifting via E-tube and race cross September-November. Is this possible or am I dreaming? It seems like if I were to swap the XT rear derailler for the RX805 I'd be fine (but thats another expensive part). But I can't run the M8050 di2 front derailleur cause it can't handle 50/34 chainrings?
My research says that both derailleurs need to be of the same kind (i.e. road or mtb) to work with road shifters. You cannot mix derailleurs.

Also, as mentioned above, mtb front mech will not work with road chainsaws because of relationship of where the mech will be at in distance from frame and where the chainset is at in distance to frame. They do not match. You can, however, use an mtb crankset with a road/gravel bike to match an mtb front mech so it all matches nicely.

I'm looking to use an mtb double up front, but I can't find a single 44t chairing compatible with any xtr chainset i've seen.

ooo
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

https://www.starbike.com/en/blackspire- ... o-mtb-xtr/
Blackspire chainring Super Pro MTB
XTR FC-M980 104mm 44T.
MPN: 980-44
EAN: 5060276569392
67.14 €
ready for sending in 1-3 business days

https://www.starbike.com/en/shimano-cha ... 85-double/
Shimano chainring XTR for FC-M985 double
44T.
MPN: Y1LS98020
EAN: 4524667609988
74.71 €
ready for sending in 1-3 business days

or you can use sram with + direct mount 104-64 or 110-110 spider (with mtb chainline) + other chainrings
https://www.peterverdone.com/spider-attack/
'

Hex
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:30 am

by Hex

ooo wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:23 pm
https://www.starbike.com/en/blackspire- ... o-mtb-xtr/
Blackspire chainring Super Pro MTB
XTR FC-M980 104mm 44T.
MPN: 980-44
EAN: 5060276569392
67.14 €
ready for sending in 1-3 business days

https://www.starbike.com/en/shimano-cha ... 85-double/
Shimano chainring XTR for FC-M985 double
44T.
MPN: Y1LS98020
EAN: 4524667609988
74.71 €
ready for sending in 1-3 business days

or you can use sram with + direct mount 104-64 or 110-110 spider (with mtb chainline) + other chainrings
https://www.peterverdone.com/spider-attack/
:shock:

Can it fit the m9000 crankset?

by Weenie


Hex
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:30 am

by Hex

Nevermind. It will not.
Seems Shimano freestyles the bcd of their mtb cranksets on a seasonal basis.

The misión would be to find an M985 crankset in 165mm to fit that chainring...

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