Weight Weenies

Mods, are we allowed to re-host and post the image?

Or did Shimano ask you to take it down (thus confirming its validity! )?

You can find a miniature of the image posted here by googleing it. Barely readable though.

Just sayin'.

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You can also find an image of the parts list on a japanese blog by searching for google. No idea what else was originally posted as there is no mention on the blog about the narrower flange spacing

prendrefeu wrote:If indeed Shimano is going 11-spd, they're essentially trying to kill off Campagnolo.
Greater availability on OEM Market? Covered/Done.
MTB market? Covered/Done.
CX Market? Covered/Done.
Electronic? Covered/Done.
Disc brakes? Covered/Done.
11-speed? Soon.

Aside from "made in the EU" and association of the brand with history/tradition, what is the advantage of Campagnolo anymore?

Let's make some testable predictions. Do you think Campagnolo will still be a major cycling manufacturer/brand in 5 years time?

I do.

Their products are high quality and desirable. You have to stay in touch, but don't have to be at the cutting edge if you have other things in your favour.

prendrefeu wrote:If indeed Shimano is going 11-spd, they're essentially trying to kill off Campagnolo.
Greater availability on OEM Market? Covered/Done.
MTB market? Covered/Done.
CX Market? Covered/Done.
Electronic? Covered/Done.
Disc brakes? Covered/Done.
11-speed? Soon.

Aside from "made in the EU" and association of the brand with history/tradition, what is the advantage of Campagnolo anymore?

Are you saying that people only buy campag because of 11 speed?

Are we assuming that "direct mount" brake refers to a disc caliper?

Agree with the previous posters, they will gain 2.5mm per side when rear spacing goes to 135 so losing 2 mm now is not too bad in the long run. I'm not sure about the need for 11 speed, but discs are a good thing IMHO.

prendrefeu wrote:If indeed Shimano is going 11-spd, they're essentially trying to kill off Campagnolo.
Greater availability on OEM Market? Covered/Done.
MTB market? Covered/Done.
CX Market? Covered/Done.
Electronic? Covered/Done.
Disc brakes? Covered/Done.
11-speed? Soon.

Aside from "made in the EU" and association of the brand with history/tradition, what is the advantage of Campagnolo anymore?

I dont want to change the tune of this thread but are you actually serious? Some of those points above are true(CX (ever heard of Zdnek Stybar ?) and Electronic is debatable and if disc brakes become std on road bike then campy will produce) but they wont kill campy with 11speed. They haven’t managed to kill campy yet and I seriously doubt that introducing one extra speed would kill Campy. Campy exists for much more than just 1 extra cog on the back! They will never have the same market share as Shimano, but I think they will be around for a while yet. Campy offer an alternative to Shimano and choose what markets to compete in. In terms of upper end, I think they do quite well. Now SRAM on the other hand to me is more at risk than Campy. Massive marketing expenditure along with numerous company acquisitions potentially leaves little money for R&D. There have been no road innovations since RED came out and that was 4-5 years ago or so. If Shimano go 11speed, then SRAM will be the only manufacturer with no 11speed option AND no electric option(like it or not electric is here to stay!).

Overall, I'm interested in how the industry is competing against each other. So yes, seriously interested in that level of discussion.

sawyer wrote:Do you think Campagnolo will still be a major cycling manufacturer/brand in 5 years time?

Yes, that they will be a known brand and still producing excellent products that people will buy.

Major? I don't think they've been major for quite a while now. They're certainly far advanced and beyond other drivetrain systems available, but I don't consider Campagnolo as part of a "Big Three" - I only see "Big Two" and "Campagnolo" not on that scale. They're increasingly becoming a niche brand for niche clientele, regardless of cost fluctuations between geography or product level.

5 years? Yes.

Beyond that? I would not predict anything for certain for any manufacturer on that, but Shimano may have the best disposition in 5 years time most likely. SRAM is currently in debt by most recent financial reports, and while they have been innovating on the mountain and low-end drivetrains we (the public in general) are awaiting the next steps in their upper end drivetrains. Their acquisitions in other product lines bode an interesting possibility of what a company can do by combining each of those sub brands into a cohesive product line, but we (the public in general) will also need to see what happens over time.

prendrefeu wrote:Overall, I'm interested in how the industry is competing against each other. So yes, seriously interested in that level of discussion.

sawyer wrote:Do you think Campagnolo will still be a major cycling manufacturer/brand in 5 years time?

Yes, that they will be a known brand and still producing excellent products that people will buy.

Major? I don't think they've been major for quite a while now. They're certainly far advanced and beyond other drivetrain systems available, but I don't consider Campagnolo as part of a "Big Three" - I only see "Big Two" and "Campagnolo" not on that scale.

5 years? Yes.

Beyond that? I would not predict anything for certain for any manufacturer on that, but Shimano may have the best disposition in 5 years time most likely.

I think you need to define what you're actually measuring. In terms of higher end I think Campy do just fine. Lower end, not a chance. Campy dont push OEM and havent done in years.

I agree, am pretty sure shimano will still be here in some form. Either making bike parts or fishing reels

thought this thread was about shimano 11spd?

Other strong rumours out there on the other sites are a 386 crank, and mechanical discs. Looks like everyone is a while away from have having hydraulic road brakes ready.

I've also seen a photo of a proto 2:1 spoked shimano wheel, but with 18 spokes

prendrefeu wrote:If indeed Shimano is going 11-spd, they're essentially trying to kill off Campagnolo.
Greater availability on OEM Market? Covered/Done.
MTB market? Covered/Done.
CX Market? Covered/Done.
Electronic? Covered/Done.
Disc brakes? Covered/Done.
11-speed? Soon.

Aside from "made in the EU" and association of the brand with history/tradition, what is the advantage of Campagnolo anymore?

Lightweight groupset? Never

The Dura Ace groupset weight is funny:)

prendrefou - think it was your use of the word "kill" that myself and others were questioning.

Threads like this suffer due to paucity of market data.

Nonetheless we all know Shimano is much bigger than Campagnolo. I think some posters here overestimate the popularity of SRAM worldwide, as opposed to in the US - though I haven't seen any data on market share by geography.

I see cycling as a market likely to grow over the next ten years and Campagnolo doing fine in that environment. They have heritage on their side, and I wouldn't underestimate that in cycling - it's very different to cars for example where the engine is the mechanical engine rather than the legs. There is room for emotion and passion.

That said, I don't dispute their products need to stay competitive (in part because they need to be used in the pro peloton to drive sales), if not necessarily right at the cutting edge. Their electronic groiups look like a good first iteration if more costly than Shimano.

I found out via lfgss in their recommended road bikes thread here: http://www.lfgss.com/thread46545-44.html

I know it says confidential, but surely they just leaked it to get a buzz going pre launch(?). It's pretty standard for most other industries.

So if this is coming out in Aug next year, I assume we'll see the Pro teams using this much earlier, possibly even at the classics?

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