An explanation on Ciamillo Brakes performance disparity.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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Powerful Pete
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by Powerful Pete

Same here. Great brakes. They work. Are good lookin'. And stop me just fine.
Road bike: Cervelo R3, Campagnolo Chorus/Record mix...
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And you can call me Macktastik Honey Pete Kicks, thank you.

ZeroG
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by ZeroG

thisisatest wrote:-do the double sided spherical washers come stock with your brakes?
-why are the brake calipers not designed for the widest option, then have different thickness (or stackable) spherical washers to accommodate narrower rims?
-why, on the zeroG and negG, do the brake arms run directly on the center bolt, without any bushing material? i know you guys offer a tune-up program. are the arms replaced, or is the slop taken up by other means?
-why does the top of the cam drag directly on the brake arm?
-why Campy pad holders? are you doing anything different now that Campy is using a different retension system?

thanks in advance.


The double sided sphericals come with the Zero G model because with the new cam it is the only model that requires them on 19mm rims. That's actually a good idea on the stackable washers.. we started with standard padholders before the rims got so wide and we started selling the low-profile and super-lows to existing customers who were getting these rims.. we are actually recommending the low-profile on the Neg G and super-low on the Gravitas and sending them with a bag of the double-sided sphericals lately. Also, the extra wide cams are now included with the Gravitas (the calipers are fitted with the standard cam and the extra-wide cam comes in a small bag with extra eclips).

The arms run directly on the centerbolt because they are anodized which is basically a case hardening. The PV value (Pressure-Velocity value) is extremely low in a caliper application so additional bearing surfaces are not required. Radial wear in the hole has been negligible even on sets over seven years and 50,000 miles. We see a slight swaging of the faces due to the pressure over time and this is what accounts for play developing. When we do a tune-up we sometimes replace the arms but we always replace the springnut and stainless shims.

The lobe of the cam is made of Torlon... a bearing grade plastic. This material is amazing.. excellent wear resistance yet not hard enough to gall aluminum or wear the resin of the Gravitas arms. In the aluminum brake application, we have never seen the lobe wear out nor have we seen damage to the aluminum finger that it rides against. There is minimal wear of the lobe in the carbon-fiber application so the lobe should last a very long time here as well.

No particular reason we aligned ourselves with the Campy pad style.

thisisatest
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by thisisatest

thanks for the concise answers.
with the torlon cam lobe, my issue is over time, it seems to account for the kinda-crappy brake lever feel i occasionally come across. this is after cleaning and lubing the pivots, and using a fresh cable and housing.
kinda-crappy may be harsh, it's just not as smooth feeling as other brakes.
i do appreciate the ongoing updates, even if i'm not a huge fan of the brakes...

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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

So Ted can you do rebuild kits? I'd love to get one

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StuTheWeak
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by StuTheWeak

Rim width doesn't explain my brakes being sticky...I cleaned and lubed them too...cables too. Not trying to beat a dead horse.

Only tried them on my 19mm rims. I do wish I had tried them on my wider rims...just so I'd know if it would have made any difference.
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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

StuTheWeak wrote:Rim width doesn't explain my brakes being sticky...I cleaned and lubed them too...cables too. Not trying to beat a dead horse.

Only tried them on my 19mm rims. I do wish I had tried them on my wider rims...just so I'd know if it would have made any difference.



After seeing the way you put your last bike together your issues are very likely user error.. :roll:

Mine have a very light lever action but return smarty and positively
The rear is the one people have trouble getting to spring back nicely and it's usually cause the Cable drags on a poorly cut housing. As you normally have two sections of housing there is more points for cable rub and the last section needs to have a nice curve in it that often isn't right due to the able been too short.
Other brakes can over come any drag in the cable run cause the springs are much stronger..
I think they are fabulous brakes but they are very sensitive to cable run

pholcus
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by pholcus

Hi all, I mounted a set o ZeroG Ti on my Supersix. I had not much trouble setting up properly, I use alligator i-link, so I could finetune the housing lenght. Only problem I had to use the stock Dura Ace front backnut, since nthe one provided is too short.
Shame the original is 10,5 g, the Ciamillo's 1,6 g.
Maybe Ciamillo should provide two different backnuts in the package.

Anyway, on a set of AC 350 sprint, they brake very very well, plenty of power, I don't miss the DA 7900 i previously had.

williamsf1
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by williamsf1

Image
Untitled by aussie_pilot, on Flickr

see washer

Image
Untitled by aussie_pilot, on Flickr

mounted up without washer and on lower pads

Image
Untitled by aussie_pilot, on Flickr

original pads but supposedly super low pad holders....

anyone able to help me?

in the first pic you can see the little black spacer washer, does this need to be used?

I am trying to run these on 26mm wide ENVE smart 6.7 rims

trying to come up with a fix!

anyone with 3 pics of the types of pad holders

gumgardner
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by gumgardner

I sent mine back to ZG to get reworked. They are so backed up with repairs (almost 2 months), it makes me believe that these are crap brakes. I told them to just send them back.

roca rule
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by roca rule

sugarkane wrote:
StuTheWeak wrote:Rim width doesn't explain my brakes being sticky...I cleaned and lubed them too...cables too. Not trying to beat a dead horse.

Only tried them on my 19mm rims. I do wish I had tried them on my wider rims...just so I'd know if it would have made any difference.



After seeing the way you put your last bike together your issues are very likely user error.. :roll:

Mine have a very light lever action but return smarty and positively
The rear is the one people have trouble getting to spring back nicely and it's usually cause the Cable drags on a poorly cut housing. As you normally have two sections of housing there is more points for cable rub and the last section needs to have a nice curve in it that often isn't right due to the able been too short.
Other brakes can over come any drag in the cable run cause the springs are much stronger..
I think they are fabulous brakes but they are very sensitive to cable run

i nearly pissed myself after those 5 pages :lol: .

williamsf1
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by williamsf1

Any actual hep from users?????

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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

^^ are you reading the posts people have been making?

sugarkane wrote:
StuTheWeak wrote:Rim width doesn't explain my brakes being sticky...I cleaned and lubed them too...cables too. Not trying to beat a dead horse.
Only tried them on my 19mm rims. I do wish I had tried them on my wider rims...just so I'd know if it would have made any difference.



After seeing the way you put your last bike together your issues are very likely user error.. :roll:

Mine have a very light lever action but return smarty and positively
The rear is the one people have trouble getting to spring back nicely and it's usually cause the Cable drags on a poorly cut housing. As you normally have two sections of housing there is more points for cable rub and the last section needs to have a nice curve in it that often isn't right due to the able been too short.
Other brakes can over come any drag in the cable run cause the springs are much stronger..
I think they are fabulous brakes but they are very sensitive to cable run

williamsf1
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by williamsf1

Sugar....

yep! read everything previously, but I was asking about the use of the black washers... nothing to do with the performance or setup etc etc etc etc...

the question still stands, Im told these are the super low profile pad holders but cant get an answer out of ZG re: the pads setup

thats why I put the photos up....

so simply, do I need the black spacers or can I run them without them? (more width)

thanks

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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

williamsf1 wrote:Sugar....

yep! read everything previously, but I was asking about the use of the black washers... nothing to do with the performance or setup etc etc etc etc...

the question still stands, Im told these are the super low profile pad holders but cant get an answer out of ZG re: the pads setup

thats why I put the photos up....

so simply, do I need the black spacers or can I run them without them? (more width)

thanks


Ahhhh well.. It all depends on the rims you have.. Under 21mm wide the std holders work fine... Over 21mm you'll need the Lo pro holders, I have this set up with my enve 45 rims.. Again no spacers. If you have enve smart rims or fire crests you'll need the lo pro holders and the new 'wide' cam.
From what I can tell you now get the lo profile holders, wide cam and the washers as std.
So if you have a set of 19mm alloy clinchers and the new set up the washers are going to be needed to space the pad holders in enough to work ok.

The won't change the performance of the brakes only make them work with narrow rims.
And running the cam open cause you have the old std holders does not work too well..
You end up missing the sweat spot that occurs at the beginning of the lever pull given you max performance with the least amount of pull

I'm only using this picture to illustrate the way power is delivered..
The bit where the curve ramps up hard is the sweet spot. Squeezing harder will deliver more stopping power but for every increase in power from now in requires lots more pressure..
Image


Wide rim setup=good, spacers=narrow rims on wide rim step 8)

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