Weight Weenies

thprice wrote:Farsports 24mm FSL24-TM carbon rims.

Pics of the wheels?

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Has anyone tried running tubeless tires on the FSC38-CM wheels? If not, do you have any thoughts on the advisability of trying to do so?

Does anyone have the 24mm super light clinchers that are 1200 grams? Looking mainly for a weight verification.

I have been thinking about these wheels and reading over the threads for a while now. I asked someone of which I value and respect their opinion and experience (will keep name anonymous) and he brought up some questions to me that I personally did not know but thought maybe kylefoo himself or others that may know can reply to.

I wouldn't doubt if some of these questions have been answered throughout the threads but I really dont want to search through them.

My main question is how can a company produce a wheel that is considerably lower in weight yet still perform as good as the well known brands that spend tons of money on research and development and yet charge a fraction of the price? (Yes I understand that there is a lack of overhead and less middlemen etc...) Trust me I'm not knocking or bashing because I am interested in a set, but I want to feel secure about making the purchase and do as much research as i can do before laying out the money.

Here are some of the questions my source brought to my attention:

If you look at most rims on the market, esp those from big brands who have DEEP pockets for R&D, their weights are very similar to one and other. The question then becomes, how does a Trading Company in China acting as a factory produce significantly lighter weight rims at a greatly reduced price?

Are these wheels tested to EN standards? If so, can they supply third party test results from an accredited lab like SGS?

Do they have PLI (Product Liability Insurance) that would cover end users in case of catastrophic failure?

For brands like Boyd, Soul, November, Psimet, Mercury or Williams, I know where these brands source their products. They all use established Taiwanese factories for both carbon and alloy rims. The factories all carry significant PLI (2mil US) and produce EN certified rims.

double post..

merlin6014 wrote:

merlin6014 wrote:

merlin6014 wrote:Well mine have already shipped will do a report when i receive them. So far all interactions with farsport have been super fast.

Hey guys received my wheels. I ordered the "superlight" 50mm clinchers. Ordered and paid Jan 30 and received them at my door in Australia on Feb 9 (so exactly a week) - how on Earth they got it to me in that time I don't know. They were packaged well and no damage I can see.

Anyway straight on the scales, front wheel is 602g and rear wheel is 739g (I paid the $40 extra for lighter hubs "edhub black"). So total weight 1341g. Given I was looking at a set of Dura Ace C24's which weigh 1364g I don't know how they manage to be lighter whilst having a 50mm depth but they do.

Would love to ride them but waiting on rim tape and a cassette tool (stupid me didn't realize I needed a damn tool) from Chainreaction so a review of how they ride will have to wait for now.

So first ride yesterday - tried to keep the pace to what I would normally do so to get a fair comparison. On a 20km TT that I regularly do I shaved exactly 60 seconds and added 1.7km/h to my average speed. The new wheels are VERY noticeable when going uphill and accelerating after a corner. feels like a different bike.

Of course you are probably more interested in reliability so I will report back in 6 months.

Completely forgot to mention - the rear hub makes a VERY loud clicking noise when freewheeling. Im an 99% sure this is not a mechanical problem its just the brand of hub (e.g. campo hubs make this noise as do DT Swiss and Chris King). I guess it would drive some people crazy, I'm OK with it as long as its "normal". One advantage is you can freewheel when your about 10m behind a pedestrian and they hear you very easily. Maybe Farsport can comment? (I have the upgraded Edhub black).

Try a little thin grease. I've lubed Bitex freewheels (Edhubs are Bitex) and made them quiet.

eric wrote:Try a little thin grease. I've lubed Bitex freewheels (Edhubs are Bitex) and made them quiet.

Yeah that would probably work, though in all honesty I'm fine with it (good safety feature actually) as long as its normal (which from searching the web it apparently is).

merlin6014 wrote: Completely forgot to mention - the rear hub makes a VERY loud clicking noise when freewheeling. Im an 99% sure this is not a mechanical problem its just the brand of hub (e.g. campo hubs make this noise as do DT Swiss and Chris King). I guess it would drive some people crazy, I'm OK with it as long as its "normal". One advantage is you can freewheel when your about 10m behind a pedestrian and they hear you very easily. Maybe Farsport can comment? (I have the upgraded Edhub black).

Hi merlin6014, you could try some Belray Waterproof Grease (Aluminum based lube) in your freehub (and Bearings). This grease is excellent and resists water and dirt contamination and water washout

Good post Bianchi10.

Just weighed my 50mm Farsport Clinchers with Edhubs (Shimano comp.) Weight was 1331gr, just 1gr of target.

Quick question: Is the body compatible with Shimano 11sp ? I tried to mount my 10sp cassette, but I can't seem to have it fixed.

@Bianchi10:
QUOTE:One of the goals at Boyd Cycling is to get people the highest quality products at the best prices. Boyd has been racing for many years and thinks everybody should have access to the top of the line equipment. When you see a $2700 set of wheels you have to wonder how much of that cost is due to sponsorship, huge advertising budgets, and different layers of distribution. At Boyd Cycling we don't sponsor pro tour cycling teams, we don't place multiple full page advertisements in expensive cycling magazines, and the wheels are coming directly from us to you.UNQUOTE
QUOTE:November Bicycles supplies race-ready bikes, framesets and wheels at half the cost of most other companies by cutting costs that don't add value.
Racing bicycles and wheels cost too much.
Much of this cost - inventory risk, advertising, professional sponsorship, distribution channel morass, financing expense - contributes absolutely nothing to a bike's performance. We realized that by stripping out all of the expenses that don't add value, we would be able to sell remarkably high quality frames, bikes and wheels at a fraction of what other brands charge. So that's what we decided to do.UNQUOTE

This could go on and on.
Take November and Boyd away and insert FarSports.
I was not aware that FarSports acts as a factory.I look at them as a company like the listed wheel builders in your post.
Plus they trade with all kind of other consumer goods.
They claim to design them . The production of rims is done elsewhere.Sources for other parts are listed.
Questions: It took years the "western world" years to accept that Taiwan has "established manufacturers". Why shouldn't some Chinese manufacturers have reached an industrial level which would pass EN tests?
Why do we request SGS certification from FarSports if not from the listed few?

QUOTE:If you look at most rims on the market, esp those from big brands who have DEEP pockets for R&D, their weights are very similar to one and other.UNQUOTE
Incorrect.There are many different weights for same or similar deep rims between those "big brands". And who are those "big brands" indeed?
How well are we informed about their R&D budgets?
Question: Your anonymous source claims to know where named wheel builders get their rims from. Why don't these tell us where the get their rims from rather saying some well "established Taiwanese " companies?
May be these rims come from China and not from Taiwan? From the same company where FarSports is getting them done?

It will take too long to answer all your questions satisfactory but what I see here is that some are not happy with the huge competition from China.They claim to be inexpensive and now are pushed to recalculate and pushed to new limits.

Real life and long term consumer reviews like Theremery's will lead us to the correct path.
And what ever the "big brands" and "established manufacturers" do and ask,time is not on their side.
Keep in mind that Taiwanese rims are used in pro-racing (FFWD) and we are not far away that some Chinese rims will find their place in the peleton.They may already some out there.

Keep in mind that Taiwanese rims are used in pro-racing (FFWD) and we are not far away that some Chinese rims will find their place in the peleton.They may already some out there.

Agreed - there is plenty of people using farsports for racing at a club level and regularly placing and they have no problem - which is why i ended up buying some.

Another thing to keep in mind is they are not THAT much cheaper. Mine were $680 to my door. Could have got reynolds assaults 46mm $1100 to my door. We are only talking 400 bux but i chose to take a chance.

Like I said, I'm not bashing here. Just asking questions for personal security

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Did you check the EN test results for the aluminium rims you are riding now? Or your frame or handlebars? Yea, I thought not. I haven't either.

The only EN test results I have seen have been for a made in China frame that I bought recently. My Cervelos didn't come with them. Neither did the Reynolds carbon rims I had built into wheels. And of course I have no idea what the EN tests actually test, if they are valid or useless, or if they are easily gamed.

I don't think that there are more than a couple of people here, all of whom are in the industry, who could make sense of an EN or any other certification. And they know enough about CF engineering that they probably don't need the test results to know if a CF part is well made.

The rest of us make our decisions based on the company's reputation and the reports of other people who have bought stuff from them. There's plenty of information here and on other sites to allow one to make a reasonably informed decision about FarSports products, considering that we are talking about bike wheels and not an aircraft frame. If you're not comfortable with that there are plenty of other vendors to choose from.