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Cannondale hollowgram SI SL install - need help

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:41 am
by G6612
My wife came through for Christmas this year and I got the Hollowgram cranks I do have a question for the install. My bike is a 2010 Cannondale Supersix 3 which came with FSA SLK Lights. I removed no problem and here is where my questions begin. On the original Cranks they had the wavey washer on the non-drive side. (bearing cover/spacer/wavey washer) On the drive side they had only bearing cover/washer. Small chainring sat out about 8mm from frame. Now according to the Cannondale manual I will be putting the wavy washer on the drive side. Sounds good to me the only problem I have is that on the drive side I installed the bearing cover/one spacer/wavey washer and I torqued to the spec of 25 to 30 lbs. In the manual PDF it states that the wavey washer should be compressed to me it looks flat. (??) Now I don't think I should istall more washers due to that would push the wavy washer out further and would compress more. Should I remove the washer ?? I am little confused any input would be appreciated I searched on this topic with no luck.

Thanks for any help.

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:56 am
by devinci
I dont want to highjack the thread, but I am interested as well in this. I just installed my hollowgram si cranks and torqued it with my torque wrench under torque spec @ 29N.m since my torque wrench stops there. The wavy washer is totally compressed and the crank do not spin a lot, the chain isnt installed and if I spin the cranks it will stop after one complete turn.

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:58 am
by SUCycling88
The wavy washer should never be compressed completely to flat. Try removing the spacer and it should take care of the problem. I had the same issue when I was installing the Hollowgram SL on my system six.

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:10 am
by SUCycling88
Devinci... Check the c-clip that stabilizes the drive-side bearing is still in place. I had the same problem with the lack of spinning when I first installed the crank and ended up pulling everything apart and noticing the c-clip was dislodged and the bearing was essentially destroyed due to a bad bearing install from the mechanic working on my bike before myself.

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:15 am
by G6612
SUCycling88 so you had the wavey washer right against the bearing cover??

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:00 am
by devinci
SUCycling88 wrote:Devinci... Check the c-clip that stabilizes the drive-side bearing is still in place. I had the same problem with the lack of spinning when I first installed the crank and ended up pulling everything apart and noticing the c-clip was dislodged and the bearing was essentially destroyed due to a bad bearing install from the mechanic working on my bike before myself.


sucks, I dont have the puller to pull out the crank, I cant do it by hand its stuck there

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:15 am
by SUCycling88
I'll take a look at my bike tomorrow and find out how the washer is placed but I believe its right against the bearing cover... As for a crank puller.. Stop by a bike shop and ask them if they have a bearing puller for a bb30 and if you could use it... usually if they're not *ssholes they won't have a problem with it.

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:03 pm
by bikerjulio
Firstly there is a difference in BB30 speak between a spacer and a shim.

Spacers are used in MTB applications only.

On a road bike "up to" 5 shims may be used, as necessary so as to just start compressing the wave washer.

So, it would seem to me to be safest to start with zero shims, so as not to invite damaging the bearings, torque it down and see how it looks. You should always check for free spin when torquing down a crankarm on any system, and stop immediately if you feel binding.

http://www.cannondale.com/gbr/eng/CannondaleFiles/Manuals/2008_hollowgram_sl_crank_owners_manual_supplement_en.pdf

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:30 pm
by G6612
Sorry should have been more clear. I meant shims not spacers.

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:36 pm
by devinci
bikerjulio wrote:Firstly there is a difference in BB30 speak between a spacer and a shim.

Spacers are used in MTB applications only.

On a road bike "up to" 5 shims may be used, as necessary so as to just start compressing the wave washer.

So, it would seem to me to be safest to start with zero shims, so as not to invite damaging the bearings, torque it down and see how it looks. You should always check for free spin when torquing down a crankarm on any system, and stop immediately if you feel binding.

http://www.cannondale.com/gbr/eng/CannondaleFiles/Manuals/2008_hollowgram_sl_crank_owners_manual_supplement_en.pdf


do you reckon one full crank rotation without the chain is fine? I havent even torqued it to torque spec... I used 3 shims on my caad9, ceramic bearing.

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:28 pm
by G6612
I only have the non-drive side crank arm on at this time and it spins freely but not alot of rotation I know it is the current weight on the one side but it doesn't spin like anything special. I am still using my original bearings. Once they wear out I will probably switch to the cermamic bearings that came with the cranks. I am just concerned about the wavey washer on the drive side???

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:51 pm
by bikerjulio
devinci wrote:
bikerjulio wrote:Firstly there is a difference in BB30 speak between a spacer and a shim.

Spacers are used in MTB applications only.

On a road bike "up to" 5 shims may be used, as necessary so as to just start compressing the wave washer.

So, it would seem to me to be safest to start with zero shims, so as not to invite damaging the bearings, torque it down and see how it looks. You should always check for free spin when torquing down a crankarm on any system, and stop immediately if you feel binding.

http://www.cannondale.com/gbr/eng/CannondaleFiles/Manuals/2008_hollowgram_sl_crank_owners_manual_supplement_en.pdf


do you reckon one full crank rotation without the chain is fine? I havent even torqued it to torque spec... I used 3 shims on my caad9, ceramic bearing.


No, seems not right to me. I'd be expecting several revs from a flick of the crank.


I only have the non-drive side crank arm on at this time and it spins freely but not alot of rotation I know it is the current weight on the one side but it doesn't spin like anything special. I am still using my original bearings. Once they wear out I will probably switch to the cermamic bearings that came with the cranks. I am just concerned about the wavey washer on the drive side???


With the nds crank only, there is no bearing preload, but obviously the unbalance will affect spinning. Personally, I would just check the bearing feel itself by hand and ear. It's pretty easy to tell a smooth bearing from a damaged one.

Remember, the minor preload caused by the shim/wavy washer combo is only to eliminate side play - not to actually load the bearing. And if you graunch down with too many shims in the pack you will likely damage a bearing, or the housing.

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:19 pm
by bikerjulio
To expand on my last note, it seems to me that Cannondale could do a better job of explaining things in their instructions.

The shims are only provided to accommodate manufacturing tolerances in the machining of the BB shell. The life of the bearings will be reduced by any side preload, so if it was me doing the assembly, I'd have the wavy washer just lightly touching and make sure that there wasn't any side play.

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:22 pm
by devinci
any other way to loosen the bearing load? The local bike shop does NOT have a bb30 type puller, there are not much bb30 user here.

Re: CANNONDALE HOLLOWGRAM SI SL INSTALL - NEED HELP

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:48 pm
by bikerjulio
Looks like Cannondale expect it to be a trial and error thing with the first install. ie, you must have the means of removing the crank if it's not right the first time. Does your regular puller fit? and then use a stop against the shaft?

If not, then the correct tools are needed.

I have to say that this is one area where Campy Ultratorque or Truvativ GXP are models of simplicity in comparison.