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has anyone actually ridden ADAs?

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:17 pm
by 520 Dan
Pretty much everyone speaks very poorly of ADAs on this board, and I know the history/controversies with Lightweight, but has anyone here actually ridden ADAs? At some point someone talked about some german test of ADA vs Lightweight and concluded ADAs were crap, but I believe the magazine name and article title escaped them or something (I might be wrong) so they could only summarize what they said. I'm just kinda wondering. Thanks

has anyone actually ridden ADAs?

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:17 pm
by Weenie

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:17 am
by ks04us
I've never actually ridden them, but from the looks of the information on the websites, I'd say it was the other way around. That ADA's are the better make. But I don't know the history, so I might not be one to say anything. It just kind of looks like Ceers knows what he's doing, I mean they just got into that new facility, there are pictures of all the testing that the wheels go through... But maybe there's more to the story I don't know about.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:04 am
by camel
i also think that going just by the website that ada's are better and not just the weight, strength wise ceramic bearings etc. i know a guy that had lightweights and sold them as they flexed so much that they rubbed on his brake pads. i'd love to here from someone who's ridden them

Test Data about Lightweights

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:38 pm
by martin
camel wrote:i also think that going just by the website that ada's are better and not just the weight, strength wise ceramic bearings etc. i know a guy that had lightweights and sold them as they flexed so much that they rubbed on his brake pads. i'd love to here from someone who's ridden them

That person can't have ridden the lightweights personally.
I own a set of lightweights, it is impossible to have them rub on the brakepads unless you forgot to close the skewer, or either the frame or the wheels have been badly damaged.
(BTW, They seem to be ok for Cipo and Ullrich, both not the lightest in the peloton.. On the other hand, you could see Jalabert climbing with his rear brake opened - he uses ADA.)

My personal experience is, that LWs are at least as stiff laterally as my '2000 "shamal"-style Ventos (at about 3/5 of the weight).
Independent Tests show the same:

German magazine "tour" had lightweights among many others in a big test in Issue 7/2002.
the ONLY wheels that were stiffer than the LWs was a wheelset approx. double the weight, built in traditional way with 32 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes and brass nipples. (see Nr. (4) below)
All the other lighter wheels (Tune etc.) were WAY weaker.

some figures from the test:
(V=front, H=rear, N/mm = lateral stiffness in Newton per mm)

(1)Lightweight:
V: 71,4 N/mm (505g)
H: 58,1 N/mm (756g)

(2)Tune Olympic
(Tune/Zipp 303, Bladed Spokes 2.0/1.0/2.2 v24 radial, h 28 2xcrossed)
V: 49,3 N/mm (491g)
H: 36,0 N/mm (604g)

(3) Tune/Mavic Open Pro/32 bladed Spokes 2.0/1.0/2.2 32 3x crossed)
V: 54,1 N/mm (676g)
H: 38,4 N/mm (781g)

(4) Ultegra/CXP33/32 round spokes 2.0/1.8 32 3xcrossed)
V: 84.3 N/mm (880g)
H: 59.4 N/mm (1090g)

The test of the ADAs mentioned above was also in "Tour" this year.
they were considerably WEAKER than the Lightweights (between 10 and 20 N/mm, if memory serves).
The wheels tested were Edward Zimmerman's personal set, who is a close friend of ADA's Cees Beers.

Martin

Re: Test Data about Lightweights

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:50 pm
by Florian
martin wrote:The test of the ADAs mentioned above was also in "Tour" this year.
they were considerably WEAKER than the Lightweights (between 10 and 20 N/mm, if memory serves).
The wheels tested were Edward Zimmerman's personal set, who is a close friend of ADA's Cees Beers.

A while ago someone posted a translation of the ADA test.
Stiffness was 56 N/mm for the front and 38 N/mm for the rear:
tour 7/2003, page 98
"DECEIVINGLY SIMILAR"
Lightweight or Ada? Both High-Tech-Wheelsets made from Carbon and Kevlar look deceivingly alike and are often reason to arguments among experts: Which pro is on which wheels? A reason for the similarity may be that the dutch ada-owner Cees beers used to be sales partner of Munich manuafacturer lightweight. He copied the successful wheel for large parts, technically it is no match for the original. Stiffness is 38 N/mm for the rear and 56 N/mm for the front wheel. The Ada-Wheels also don`t score concerning aerodynamics. Compared to the carbon blades of the lightweight the bulky Kevlar spokes cause much more drag. But the Ada are lighter: wheelset is 1160 gramms, front 20-spoke 525 g and rear 20-spoke 635 g. This makes the Ada set about 100 g lighter than the Lightweights in the "tour" test 7/02. The weight advantage is credited mainly to the rear hub, an original construction and compatible with shimano as well as campagnolo. Two allen keys are enough to change casette and rotor. During the test ride the less stiffness of the rear wheel was noticable through rubbing on the brake pads when pedalling uphill standing up. Furthermore the rear hub made a noticable crack when starting to pedal after freewheeling. The manufacturer explained this with unprecisely manufactured ratchets in the freewheel of the tested wheel; totaly inacceptable when you look at the pricetag of 2950 Euros for one wheelset.
The wheelsets are only manufactured to order, they are available in 26 " and 28 " for road and track. The spoke number is variable depending on rider weight and use. Only available through direct order plus 70 Euros shipping (in europe). delivery time: at least 2 weeks.


There was also a test by a British magazine, but I can't find it anymore on the web.

Re: Test Data about Lightweights

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:21 pm
by martin
Florian, thanks for the article. Some details in there that i forgot, for example the noisy freehub. So much about "strengthwise better". LWs use Campy Record or Shimano Dura Ace; never heard anybody complain about the durability of these. And there are aftermarket ceramic BB for these available, if you vant to save a few grams on the wheel and many bucks in your wallet...

Martin

Florian wrote:
martin wrote:The test of the ADAs mentioned above was also in "Tour" this year.
they were considerably WEAKER than the Lightweights (between 10 and 20 N/mm, if memory serves).
The wheels tested were Edward Zimmerman's personal set, who is a close friend of ADA's Cees Beers.

A while ago someone posted a translation of the ADA test.
Stiffness was 56 N/mm for the front and 38 N/mm for the rear:
tour 7/2003, page 98
"DECEIVINGLY SIMILAR"
Lightweight or Ada? Both High-Tech-Wheelsets made from Carbon and Kevlar look deceivingly alike and are often reason to arguments among experts: Which pro is on which wheels? A reason for the similarity may be that the dutch ada-owner Cees beers used to be sales partner of Munich manuafacturer lightweight. He copied the successful wheel for large parts, technically it is no match for the original. Stiffness is 38 N/mm for the rear and 56 N/mm for the front wheel. The Ada-Wheels also don`t score concerning aerodynamics. Compared to the carbon blades of the lightweight the bulky Kevlar spokes cause much more drag. But the Ada are lighter: wheelset is 1160 gramms, front 20-spoke 525 g and rear 20-spoke 635 g. This makes the Ada set about 100 g lighter than the Lightweights in the "tour" test 7/02. The weight advantage is credited mainly to the rear hub, an original construction and compatible with shimano as well as campagnolo. Two allen keys are enough to change casette and rotor. During the test ride the less stiffness of the rear wheel was noticable through rubbing on the brake pads when pedalling uphill standing up. Furthermore the rear hub made a noticable crack when starting to pedal after freewheeling. The manufacturer explained this with unprecisely manufactured ratchets in the freewheel of the tested wheel; totaly inacceptable when you look at the pricetag of 2950 Euros for one wheelset.
The wheelsets are only manufactured to order, they are available in 26 " and 28 " for road and track. The spoke number is variable depending on rider weight and use. Only available through direct order plus 70 Euros shipping (in europe). delivery time: at least 2 weeks.


There was also a test by a British magazine, but I can't find it anymore on the web.

ADA Wheels

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:30 am
by Geoff
Ask me in a couple of weeks. I have a set on the way and will be able to let you know...

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:24 am
by 520 Dan
a set of Lightweights or a set of ADA's?

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:34 am
by Geoff
ADA's. I looked into the Lightweights, too. There is a guy in the UK who has a set that is available right now (20-spoke road, Campagnolo), if you are interested. I'm using a set of Ambrosio X-Carbos with FRM front and Record rear hubs and Sapim CX-Rays as climbing wheels now. THe ADA's should be a lot lighter.

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm
by Incomplete Pete
How much is the guy selling them for?

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:45 pm
by 520 Dan
yeah, I'm interested in that as well, let me know if you know the guy and I'll drop him an email.

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:11 am
by 520 Dan
bump, plus do these wheels ever come up on European ebay?

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:07 am
by Geoff
Sorry, I have not been on in awhile. The person to speak to is Natalie Rogers at Peloton: peloton@ndirect.co.uk.

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:07 am
by Weenie