The 2011 CAAD 10 thread

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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PalleRaa
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Location: Denmark - Copenhagen

by PalleRaa

Hi everyone

I have the Ultegra version for this bike on order and would welcome all information some of you might have about it. I have gathered some of the info for this particular frame from the 2011 Cannondale thread.

all-new CAAD10 platform that sheds 200g from the CAAD9 version ... up http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/fir ... and-superx

All CAAD 10s are braze on. It's a typo. The sales sheets that se people posted were not finalized. Therefore there might be some typos.

The derailleur is braze on.
The seatpost is a 27.2mm.

Caad10: 1 1/4 lower bearing, similar tube shapes to sixcarbon


Anyone here actually ridden the bike or know anything release date in EU or US?
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devinci
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by devinci

like someone else stated in an other thread, by shaving off 200g from the caad9, the caad10 cant have the same stiffness then its little brother, wich is always stated as an exemple of a stiff race frame.

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PalleRaa
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by PalleRaa

Im aware of that. But until we have a confirmed weight of the new frame I would say it's hard to conclude anything. The first 100g could be because the new frame come anodized compared to the old which was only paint. Then there is the fact that the new frame has hydroformed tubes which could maintain stiffness and save 100g. It is gonna me interesting to see when the new frame arrives.

By the way I'm taking a chance since i am about 95kg so I really hope the frame is not too flexy. If that is the case I will just have to sell it I guess. Thankfully it is pretty cheap :)
Light. Strong. Cheap. Pick two.
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In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

Cleaner
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by Cleaner

The assertion that shedding 200 grams on the CAAD10 relative to the CAAD9 mass must result in less stiffness is unsupported by anything other than speculation. It is well within the realm of the possible to reduce the mass and maintain stiffness of a structure. I am asked to do it often for clients and am successful at it. I am an engineer and have some insight into how it is possible to do it. It is not rocket science to do it on a bike frame. The expertise is required in optimizing the stiffness/weight ratio while meeting production cost goals for a mass produced item.

I have no idea if the CAAD10 is as stiff as the CAAD9 frame but I really question anyone who would assert it is not without some data to back it up. I have a CAAD9 currently and am curious to test the CAAD10 frame to compare its performance and feel.

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MaaseyRacer
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by MaaseyRacer

Cleaner wrote:I have no idea if the CAAD10 is as stiff as the CAAD9 frame but I really question anyone who would assert it is not without some data to back it up. I have a CAAD9 currently and am curious to test the CAAD10 frame to compare its performance and feel.


I question your questioning of someone who presents a valid concern, regardless of data being present. :) Is it fact? No. Is it speculation? Yes. This is also what separates us marketing forlks and you engineers. However, after riding many aluminum frames including my own custom built one, I can see where his concern for the successor to one of the best race frames of all time comes from.

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PalleRaa
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by PalleRaa

I will lend my bike to anyone in the Copenhagen area who currently ride a CAAD9 so we can find out, on a subjective level, if the new frame is as stiff as the old. I will also strip the bike and weight the frame so we can confirm any potential weight loss.
Light. Strong. Cheap. Pick two.
_.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-._
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

biky
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by biky

I have seen the new Caad 10 and it surtenly looks bulky.

Rear-end is much thicker in diameter and also the top tube is massive (not literally)

200 gr I don´t know but it must be stiff as hell (by using the same tube shapes on the rear end as the Flash it will also be quite comfortable)
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devinci
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by devinci

Cleaner wrote:The assertion that shedding 200 grams on the CAAD10 relative to the CAAD9 mass must result in less stiffness is unsupported by anything other than speculation. It is well within the realm of the possible to reduce the mass and maintain stiffness of a structure. I am asked to do it often for clients and am successful at it. I am an engineer and have some insight into how it is possible to do it. It is not rocket science to do it on a bike frame. The expertise is required in optimizing the stiffness/weight ratio while meeting production cost goals for a mass produced item.

I have no idea if the CAAD10 is as stiff as the CAAD9 frame but I really question anyone who would assert it is not without some data to back it up. I have a CAAD9 currently and am curious to test the CAAD10 frame to compare its performance and feel.


sorry, im not engineer, was just wondering/speculating

if its no rocket science, why havent they shed 200g off the caad9 before 2011? They must be dumb at cannondale eh?

:lol:

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PalleRaa
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by PalleRaa

When you can hydroform the tubes you can control thickness and shape throughout the tube. That is more expensive and complicated to do. This is the first CAAD frame with this kind of tubing. The result is that you can design the tubes to be strong where it is needed and light where it is possible.
Light. Strong. Cheap. Pick two.
_.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-.__.-*'´`'*-._
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

Cleaner
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:13 pm

by Cleaner

I am not attempting to disparage anyone for expressing an opinion. I was offering my viewpoint based on my experience. I just don't accept the statement that because it is lighter it must be less stiff.

I don't know why they have not done it (shaved weight) before. It may in fact be possible to hit the same price point using hydroforming (which requires capital investment above butted tubes) because it is being done in Taiwan which is generally much less expensive than here in the USA. Since offering the six and super six models it seems more development man hours have been spent on them rather than top end CAAD frame design. I am glad to see some design time spent on the CAAD10 it remains to be seen if it is an improvement or not as a whole.

I know and have worked with another engineer who was at Cannondale bicycles in the late 80s, he is not stupid. I also worked with engineering at Cannondale motor sports in 2002 to redesign some motorcycle engine components, unfortunately for them and the bicycle business they went into bankruptcy shortly after this project was started.

record
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by record

devinci wrote:like someone else stated in an other thread, by shaving off 200g from the caad9, the caad10 cant have the same stiffness then its little brother, wich is always stated as an exemple of a stiff race frame.



yes, and 1.5 kg carbon frames from 10 year ago are certainly stiffer than today's super six's and canyon's, cause there is less material now..
A light bike does replace good fitness.

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devinci
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by devinci

SORRY

these were only suppositions from a very unknowledgeable guy from a frame design view

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LouisN
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by LouisN

I am certainly curious to hear about a 1kg aluminium frame that can be stiffer than anything up to now, and that can ride like a road race bike should (we still have to be able to actually ride for a few hours on those things, and keep all our fillings here :lol: )...

I don't think anybody in the bike business has achieved it so far...

There is a lot of examples of 1k frames, even below that, but they were either noodles, too fragile or had a very harsh ride, and had a low weight limit (won't name brands, just do a search...)

I also think that "aluminium business" is different from carbon. We've not seen different alloys come out for the last few years.

Maybe the idea is that they (Cannondale) used the way "carbon designers" worked to obtain light AND stiff (THAT we have been wittnesses, has changed dramatically over the last six-seven years, and still going strong...), and transposed it to aluminium. :noidea:
One positive thing about this "breakthrough", is that aluminium is not dead, and if these kind of frames are "ride-able" for us (remember this: In terms of ride comfort, carbon frames are though to beat), we'll be seeing more and more 950-1000 g aluminium frames (Okay, S or M, maximum!!!). That's good for my little pocket. Good for competing against the "carbon industry"...



Louis :)

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Curious George
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by Curious George

So what is the release date evryone is being told?
I spoke with the LBS yesterday, and it's looking tentitively like October for Aussie (this is stil to be confirmed)....

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Junior Varsity
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by Junior Varsity

I've ridden one and weighed one. 1130 grams (painted white and blue 56cm with hanger and collar).

As far as the stiffness goes, i didn't ride it back to back with a CAAD 9 and it had some mid level wheels but the front end felt solid.
Doing bike things.

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