Look 585 bottom bracket shell de-bond

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
gilesharrison
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:44 pm

by gilesharrison

Ok, slight creaking on my bike tonight when pedalling. Got home, removed the chainset to find the bottom bracket cup (Hope External Ceramic) came straight out, bringing with it the alloy BB shell from the drive side. Obviously, it's a bit of a problem. The shell slots back in very neatly.

I know your first reaction will be 'warranty'. Problem is, it's a 2006 frame which I bought second hand so there is no warranty. I've read that this has happened before with 2006 frames so it's certainly not an isolated incident.

Thing is, it's still a decent frame and I don't want it to become wall art. What do you reckon my chances are like if I attempt to re-bond the alloy shell into the frame with epoxy resin? Anyone tried this?

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

I would honestly contact Look first and see what they say. Their customer support is very, very good. So they may surprise you.

latman
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:44 pm

by latman

If you do try to glue it back in use epoxy glue not resin .It is a lot thicker and will "hang" in place better. make sure to sand the carbon hole for adhesion and you also need a place for the glue to stay when you push the alloy shell into place, good luck with alignment ! ps you cannot let any glue cure in the threads after you push the shell back in place! You could also try methacrylate glue ( like plexus) If a company like look was prepared to fix it :) (or replace it :D ) then go with that.

jamiewilson3
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Location: Fort Mill, SC

by jamiewilson3

Also, if Look warranty will not do anything, consider sending in the frame to somewhere like Calfee (US) or equivalent for repair.

gilesharrison
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:44 pm

by gilesharrison

Ok, I've contacted both Look and Fisher Outdoor (UK Distributer). I don't expect they'll help me, but it's woth a go.

If I'm going to glue it in with epoxy glue, can I coat the BB threads in vaseline to prevent glue from bonded to them if there's any mess? Would that work?

Thanks for the advice.

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fettling
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by fettling

Perhaps a good solution would be to install the crank...

Get hold of a thinner low viscocity epoxy if possible, otherwise you will struggle to get a layer of adhesive between the shell and frame.
Prepare the threaded shell and frame as described by latman.
Apply some grease to the threaded shell threads and fit the bottom bracket to it.
Now fit the bottom bracket and chainset to the frame (don't put the chain on).

Fitting the chainset should help hold everything together nicely.
Keep frame indoors for at least 24hours as the warm temperatures will help it cure. Do not ride for at least 24 hours - or as indicated by adhesive manufacturer.
http://www.shinycufflinks.co.uk
Dura Ace, Campagnolo Record and SRAM Cufflinks

gilesharrison
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:44 pm

by gilesharrison

Thanks Fettling. I was thinking about that. My only worry would be that I could end up getting epoxy on the crank axel or BB cups, thus bonding them in place. It would help to align it all though I would have though.

In my head, I can't imagine it being too difficult but I bet it'll be a total pain.

Ideally, Look will get in touch and say 'no problem, we'll send you out a replacement', but that's not going to happen.

maxxevv
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am

by maxxevv

A replacement is not really likely but possibly a very good discount for a new frameset. :thumbup:

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CharlesM
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Location: Phoenix Arizona

by CharlesM

Dont install the crank. If there's any play, the drive side is heavier and it could tilt, as well as the obvious that some epoxy will squeez out and bond the crank in place...

Nick Crumpton will pop in and tell you what Epoxy might work best...

gilesharrison
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:44 pm

by gilesharrison

When Look make these, do they just bond them if with epoxy anyway?

I'd love some advice on which epoxy is best.

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OCVeloMan
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: Southern California

by OCVeloMan

Usually, frame junctions are bonded with resin on carbon-lugged frames, not epoxy. Obviously, you don't want to use what the manufacturer used given your current situation. I had this same issue on a 595 and my LBS used an adhesive used in boat repair to fix it and haven't had any issues in 2+ years.... I'll try to dig up the name of the adhesive.

nicrump
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by nicrump

materials needed
Soapy water. cleanser, and brush/sponge
80-100 grit paper
lint free rags
acetone
thixotropic structural epoxy(high peel and sheer), 2k such as
3M-DP420
Hysol 9430
mixing/spreading tools(tongue depressing sticks)
clean cardboard to mix epoxy on

NOT thin runny stuff. not 5min hardware store crap.

Is this a face mounted shell or ID/OD? in other words, where was the glue, on the OD of the alu and ID of the carbon or did the alu have a flange with glue on the faces?

steps

remove all parts
thoroughly clean, degrease alu and BB area of frame with soap, water
thoroughly dry
thoroughly clean all surfaces with acetone
sand away all remnants of the old glue
insure parts mate easily in a twisting action, no hangups
confirm a min .005"ish/max .010"ish bond gap on the radii
sand once more, all mating surfaces with the 80/100 paper, do not over sand to deformation
thoroughly clean all surfaces with acetone once more
allow to fully dry but your bonding window is under 1hr and lower in hi humidity
mix epoxy per data sheet
using sticks, apply and even thin coat to all surfaces
twist together slowly, pausing to use clean sticks to clear away excess epoxy piling up at each end
once all together, use acetone on rags to clean away the excess including the threads. use a q-tip if needed.

do not try and grease the threads first, if you muck it up you may contaminate your bond

be advised the acetone may cause some blushing or softening of the clear coat in that area, test it first.

leaving crank or BB parts in the shell will make this a very difficult job. and frame builders will laugh at you if you do.

good luck

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CharlesM
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Location: Phoenix Arizona

by CharlesM

:up:


And we're done...

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OCVeloMan
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Location: Southern California

by OCVeloMan

Great advice but incomplete; remember you must always dispose of your trash and put your tools away... There, now it's complete! :lol: :beerchug:

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Rick
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm

by Rick

I work for a company that bonds carbon fiber to aluminum and steel all the time.

It is probably repairable, but if you do not have extensive experience with this sort of thing DO NOT TRY IT YOURSELF.

Try to get a warranty deal worked out; if that isn't successful, send it to Calfee or someone with experience. You are only going to create heartache for yourself and end up messing up the surfaces so that it cannot be repaired.

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