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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:47 pm
by Barry
Sorry we can't be more specific yet about what we're doing, but it's very interesting following the debate about what our technology might be. Some good points being made.

If you want to follow our progress use the facilities on our website. If you want to have your input into our design decisions be sure to complete the online survey (link from the website). Don't wait too long - the survey closes on Monday 1st March.

Edit: That should be Monday 2nd March.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:41 pm
by ave
My cheap solution would work with simply measuring speed and gradient (both very easy) and wind speed. The latter seems to be the hardest and most expensive to do, but surely it can be done somehow, and all this combined should give a good power estimate.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:48 pm
by rruff
That would be an iBike.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:10 pm
by ave
rruff wrote:That would be an iBike.


Oh, so I invented something that already exists. Again. :|

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:32 pm
by Dubbayoo
ave wrote:My cheap solution would work with simply measuring speed and gradient (both very easy) and wind speed. The latter seems to be the hardest and most expensive to do, but surely it can be done somehow, and all this combined should give a good power estimate.

Gradient and wind speed won't help much indoors, where do I most of my wattage work...easier to control variables.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:35 pm
by J-Nice
rruff wrote:
J-Nice wrote:Precisely... the market for these things is in the hundreds of millions. How many people are "serious" recreational cyclists? You can also get a viable PM for $350... is that too high? How cheap does it need to get?

If you think there is an untapped market, then please give it a shot.


I don't understand why you are so vehemently defending this particular point.

If the Brim Brothers can produce a power meter that is an improvement over other systems AND is a bit cheaper, they will infiltrate this market share, small as it may be. That only makes sense.

Two points-

1) The technology for these SRM units isn't so complicated that it warrants the high prices.

2) Just because people pay it doesn't mean it's worth it. There is a big difference between the two concepts.

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:11 am
by mds
I've concluded that money spent on a power meter is much more effective than money spent on lightweight parts. A couple months with any power meter and you'll be way faster than you would be with the same amount of money spent on lightweight parts. I'm a power weenie now.

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:03 am
by currieinahurry
hence why i bough an srm and not some bora 2's.
tikka



ps likely ill get some later in the year :)

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:07 am
by haydos
isn't it just about coffee shop pose ? :wink:

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:43 am
by ergott
STARNUT wrote:sure.

PMs work with starin gauges and bathroom scale work with strain gauges.

I have a bathroom scale the gets down to .01 lbs and it cost me $70. I have a PM that measures down to the .01 ft/lbs and cost $4000. One was manufactured in Germany and one was manufactured in Asia. Granted, the PM does velocity as well but so does a $40 cycling computer.

Starnut


You have a bathroom scale that does 0.01lbs? Mine does tenths.

Another thing to consider about PM is that you need 0.01 accuracy over a much higher range. No bathroom scale I know of reads 2000lbs with that kind of accuracy. I'm no expert, but I think that proper strain gauges like the ones used in an SRM are the biggest cost. I don't pretend to know this for sure. I'd like to hear an answer to that from someone more in the know.

The other factors such as reliability, spinning gauges, waterproofing, and battery life are also added in there.


-Eric

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:14 am
by Honjo
You'd need a bathroom scale that could measure not only force down but force forwards, backwards and up, to measure force put on the pedals in those directions.

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:16 am
by djconnel
On the other hand, if a power meter were being used in a Mil-spec application, how much would it cost? Obviously the cost of hardware is a small fraction of commercial power meter cost.

Also -- "just because people pay it doesn't mean it's worth it?" This is a semantic statement, but that said, I thought given the assumption of rational consumer willingness to pay is essentially the determent of "worth". If I buy a bagel at the airport for $1.50, it's because it's worth $1.50 for me at that time, and the option of going downtown to get a $0.50 bagel, or better to get wheat flour and bake my own, are less favorable.

Likewise, were I to attach a $70 bathroom scale to my bottom bracket, that's be pretty silly.

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:24 am
by rruff
ave wrote:Oh, so I invented something that already exists. Again. :|


Just a few years too late! They've finally gotten to the point where it works pretty darn well.

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:29 am
by rruff
mds wrote:I've concluded that money spent on a power meter is much more effective than money spent on lightweight parts. A couple months with any power meter and you'll be way faster than you would be with the same amount of money spent on lightweight parts. I'm a power weenie now.


Funny... it hasn't done a damn thing for me except give me some objective feedback... which is nice. I already was pretty good at pacing. On the other hand light parts won't do much either.

How has it made you faster?

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:41 am
by rruff
ergott wrote:The other factors such as reliability, spinning gauges, waterproofing, and battery life are also added in there.


Even more importantly, many don't seem to realize that the R&D, manufacturing and packaging start up, software, and marketing costs are close to being the same regardless of how many units you sell. In other words there is a very big investment to get going relative to the potential market. If there was a good chance that you could sell a few million of them, then of course you could produce a top quality unit like an SRM and sell it for <$1000... exactly how cheap I don't know. But when most people consider a $80 bike at Walmart to be just fine, it simply isn't going to happen.

Currently I think the wired iBike Pro ~$350 or so on sale is the best you can do at the low end of the scale. I don't expect anything to come along that works better than this for less money... at least not any time soon.