New powermeter rumours

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CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

Imaking20 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:24 pm
ms6073 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:37 pm

This L/R balance thing is getting old fast.
:beerchug:

I think most cyclists (at least forumites) tend to like numbers and we want all of them to be important. Even taking into account the possibility of a leg length discrepancy or some type of imbalance - once you take some sort of corrective measure (like orthotics), assuming there's even an option, you're left with no need for l/r balance as far as I'm concerned. Or you're like myself who's had PMs with L/R balance, learned that there is no imbalance to be concerned with, and no longer has that as a PM requirement. Sure does open up options for PM if I ever want them!

It's hard enough just being a snob about weight and aesthetics...
None of the races I've entered have ever specified that I only pedal with one leg, so I've never had the requirement to know which leg is stronger, to use that one.

robertbb
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by robertbb

I've got Assioma duo's, which are brilliant and give proper L-R balance. I do keep the L-R balance field on my head unit simply as it reminds me to be concious of technique as rides get longer and the mind drifts. Whereas my riding never varies beyond 48-52 either side early in a ride, somehow 3-4 hours in I can get wider variances favouring my right side as fatigue sets in... just serves as a little reminder and for that reason I find it useful.

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

L/R balance is good as static data set / discovery in case your balance has changed over time due to fit, injury or fatigue. Yes. While I don't think it is a requirement, I am in favor of true L/R measurement.

In Shimano's case it's a bullet-point feature on one of the most expensive PMs on the market, and it doesn't work. Even if you don't use data, that's not good. If it's a hardware and not a firmware issue, that's even worse.

3Pio
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by 3Pio

robertbb wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:55 am
I've got Assioma duo's, which are brilliant and give proper L-R balance. I do keep the L-R balance field on my head unit simply as it reminds me to be concious of technique as rides get longer and the mind drifts. Whereas my riding never varies beyond 48-52 either side early in a ride, somehow 3-4 hours in I can get wider variances favouring my right side as fatigue sets in... just serves as a little reminder and for that reason I find it useful.

I also use Assioma's Duo, and maybe L/R balance is not something essential, i still have it on my main screen and i like to have idea about it while im riding.. Also like to analyze things after the ride.. It's interesting how that balance is not in favour of one leg all the time and in every kind of ride...

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I only have L/R balance and power phases on my Vectors open during trainer sessions, but it's interesting...data nerd stuff. I really like seeing how my power phases change at different power levels and on different pitches.

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

ParisCarbon wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:00 pm
maquisard wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:31 pm
ParisCarbon wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:20 pm
I'm not a fan of DCR's reviews on anything..
I'm curious why you say that, he has reviewed stuff I have worked on and have always found his reviews comprehensive and fair.
Like topflight said... lots of "fluff" in his reviews, packaging, how the install went.. could really care less.. open box, remove parts and instructions, toss box in garbage bin..... I just find him biased towards certain products... oh well... I know off experience SRM works great, and if requires servicing generally pretty quick.. except Im into a 2 week wait now for my last crankset battery/calibration.. usually have it back by now, this time it hasnt even shipped yet...
For anyone who ever owned/reviewed Garmin Vector 1, you will appreciate why a section on installation is relevant. You may not care, but that does not make it superfulous fluff.

Bias? Not saying he isn't, but like many on here I'm yet to notice anything. Keen to see an example.

As for SRM and their service. I sold all my units off the back of how poor their service (and product) was within Australiasia. Went to P2M, never a single issue. They just work. I am sure the Colorado SRM centre is better but - like the first point about an installation guide - it's a relative statement that seems to be trotted out by fans of SRM. I have found they both have the capacity to deliver poor service and a poor product (PC8 initially not being water proof another great example).
ms6073 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:37 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:35 am
Supposedly there is a L/R balance issue originally reported by Ben Delaney of BikeRadar, but also noted by other reviewers.
This L/R balance thing is getting old fast. Aside from athletes with physiological impediments like hip alignment/serious leg length discrepancy/missing appendage, how exactly does one approach correcting for these minor imbalances that have most likely persisted for the life time of the rider? Sure the magnet thing is a valid point, but having switched to Shimano PM's from SRM, 3 of which need to be sent in for battery replacement/calibration/firmware updates, I really appreciate being able to recharge batteries, not to mention update firmware from my smartphone at my leisure and for no additional charge!
This is not about L/R balance and the proported utility of the measure, rather the fact that in the Shimano crank its been found to be off. As a result the overall power averages are incrorrect. That is the issue reviewers are having with it.

madik
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by madik

DCR is weird fella. But I usally looking forward to his reviews, but like some said there is many times just too much "fluff", just unnecesery informations which just makes the review TL/DR for me. In some reviews of PMs there is like 20 figures with power data comparison, why it can't be less?? However I certainly read all the reviews summary which is usually very good. He is doing great video previews/reviews which are great and I get pretty much all the necessery informations in 10-15min which is superb. Expect when he is doing unboxing, thats really weird. Like I care how big ares boxes of all the variants of Fenix 5 Plus watches..

Anyway DCR is also kind of arrogant in terms of what product does he chose to cover. In some video He talked about Lezyne GPS head units and summed it as "i dont have a time to play with this garbage". Yeah but how does his readers can know that, other than from his reviews?? I would really rather have Not-all-that-much-In-depth reviews of other products on the market which are relevant to the other products that he is usuly covering a lot. Also what I miss is personal oppionion on the pruducts, he tells you that it has feature A, B, C but he usualy doesn't say if it Good or Bad, or wheter he enjoyed using the product.

On the other hand I am a big fan of Shane Miller, his approach to testing is really what i like. He tests all the products and tells you everything actually important about the product in nicely produced youtube video.
Functionality > Performance > Weight

jfranci3
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by jfranci3

madik wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:10 pm
DCR is weird fella. But I usally looking forward to his reviews, but like some said there is many times just too much "fluff", just unnecesery informations which just makes the review TL/DR for me. In some reviews of PMs there is like 20 figures with power data comparison, why it can't be less?? However I certainly read all the reviews summary which is usually very good. He is doing great video previews/reviews which are great and I get pretty much all the necessery informations in 10-15min which is superb. Expect when he is doing unboxing, thats really weird. Like I care how big ares boxes of all the variants of Fenix 5 Plus watches..

Anyway DCR is also kind of arrogant in terms of what product does he chose to cover. In some video He talked about Lezyne GPS head units and summed it as "i dont have a time to play with this garbage". Yeah but how does his readers can know that, other than from his reviews?? I would really rather have Not-all-that-much-In-depth reviews of other products on the market which are relevant to the other products that he is usuly covering a lot. Also what I miss is personal oppionion on the pruducts, he tells you that it has feature A, B, C but he usualy doesn't say if it Good or Bad, or wheter he enjoyed using the product.

On the other hand I am a big fan of Shane Miller, his approach to testing is really what i like. He tests all the products and tells you everything actually important about the product in nicely produced youtube video.
You're right in some regard. He does avoid reviewing items that have a bad value proposition (The Leznye) or won't review well (that CN power meter). I don't think he wants to fill his site with negative tones. He does mention having to screen what he can possibly review, which I understand. I do think he gives new challengers a chance (those android bike computers, Brimm / Limits, that touchless resistance trainer), but doesn't give them the full treatment unless they have some positive aspects (Powerpod comes to mind as barely making the cut). I've found myself combing through DCs reviews for some minutia that only his site has, so there's that. He also raised the bar on doing powermeter test by at least comparing one to another and showing what might be at fault.


Those unboxing vid bring in the income. Youtube pays (something) and people will watch just about anything.

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ms6073
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by ms6073

Tinea Pedis wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:59 pm
This is not about L/R balance and the purported utility of the measure, rather the fact that in the Shimano crank its been found to be off.
For purposes of full disclosure, didn't someone posit that the L/R balance issue was related to the Bike radar reviewer's pedaling style that the Shimano is having trouble with, thus would only effect a small subset of riders?
- Michael
"People should stop expecting normal from me... seriously, we all know it's never going to happen"

TurboKoo
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by TurboKoo

My 9100p shows exactly same L/R as Garmin Vector 2 so I guess it’s pretty close?
9100p has long battery life and I haven’t had any spikes or problems with it.
Cannondale SuperSix
Shimano 9270

nemeseri
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by nemeseri

ms6073 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:33 pm
Tinea Pedis wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:59 pm
This is not about L/R balance and the purported utility of the measure, rather the fact that in the Shimano crank its been found to be off.
For purposes of full disclosure, didn't someone posit that the L/R balance issue was related to the Bike radar reviewer's pedaling style that the Shimano is having trouble with, thus would only effect a small subset of riders?
I just posted my own findings in the Shimano PM thread. I just switched over to shimano from my Pioneer PM and the L/R measurements are perfectly in line with my previous data. I used 2 pioneer PMs (6800/9000) in the past 3 years and I haven't seen any red flags so far from the shimano PM. I have noteable imbalance (48/52 - 44/56 based on effort) so if something had been off, I'm sure I would have noticed. So far so good, let's hope it stays that way.

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

ms6073 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:33 pm
Tinea Pedis wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:59 pm
This is not about L/R balance and the purported utility of the measure, rather the fact that in the Shimano crank its been found to be off.
For purposes of full disclosure, didn't someone posit that the L/R balance issue was related to the Bike radar reviewer's pedaling style that the Shimano is having trouble with, thus would only effect a small subset of riders?
Mine is not based off their review solely, my mate also reviewed the cranks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGQSqrobPbk

to suggest a power meter at the price could have the reading thrown off by a pedalling style feels like some bizarre straw grasping. And certainly not what Shane found.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

It would be even worse if this issue only manifested itself in some units and not others. That means there is QC variance. If all units reported L/R wonkiness to the same degree, a firmware update could be pushed and the problem would be put to bed. Right now the only way I can be sure that a Shimano PM has the correct L/R balance is to concurrently test it against my Vector 2s and Hammer...and then again with my Vector 3s and Hammer just to see which ones track the closest.

As we’ve stated already, it’s not a good look to have an obviously broken feature (whether you deem it useful or not) on a US$1550 power meter.


Berzin1
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by Berzin1

Speaking of power meters, I was excited to recieve the Favero Assiomas and I get nothing but "calibration error-please try again" or something to that affect.

Someone said try to go to their bootloader but on my Galaxy J7 Refine phone it does not show me where it appears.

So if I try with another phone belonging to someone else, will it affect the meter's performance? Would I have to use the opther person's phone every time I switch the pedals from one bike to another, which requires calibration?

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