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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:29 am
by Arky
This is not a freedom of speech issue. There is no one stopping you from speaking the same things in your own blog or forum. There are no inferred rights of forum members to discuss what they want within the parameters you spoke of. If the owner representative decides to kill a thread for no reason at all or the whole forum for that matter, you do not nor should you have any say in the matter.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:38 am
by CharlesM
This forum does a very good job catching the personal attack crap but this seems less a case of that, which is why a few frequent members are asking...

Regretfully some are screaming like little girls about it when there may be a simple reason.



Respectfully,

I agree that saying the deletion was simply "censorship / etc.... is an assumtion.



But If the mother of all fukc ups is assuming, I guess the Daddy of all assumtions is that the community wouldn't notice and ask :wink:


Maybe the reason was valid and simple. If so, it would be great to post it. If not, I'll get over it.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:42 am
by Starter
Arky wrote:This is not a freedom of speech issue. There is no one stopping you from speaking the same things in your own blog or forum. There are no inferred rights of forum members to discuss what they want within the parameters you spoke of. If the owner representative decides to kill a thread for no reason at all or the whole forum for that matter, you do not nor should you have any say in the matter.


I can't really continue this debate with you because based on the above, I don't think you understand what an "inferred right" is. That's a pretty major point in my argument. It's not my intention to be glib, but it is something you need to be familiar with for us to effectively debate without just going in circles and becoming frustrated.

If you reside in the states, check out some reading on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, some pretty interesting examples of inferred rights, how they've come to be such, and even the laws that have been put into place because of them... Fascinating stuff if you're a history buff. :D

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:59 am
by Arky
I understand the desire to know why and I am curious myself. It is the whole demanding part based on "rights" that makes me wince. To me it is like a teenager demanding an explanation for a decision from a parent. I guess by modern US and European standards even that is now a bad analogy.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:12 am
by Starter
Arky wrote:I understand the desire to know why and I am curious myself. It is the whole demanding part based on "rights" that makes me wince. To me it is like a teenager demanding an explanation for a decision from a parent. I guess by modern US and European standards even that is now a bad analogy.


Again, just do some quick reading and I think you'll see where I'm coming from. It's not about demanding anything, it's about what people naturally and reasonably expect based on what is valued universally within our society (excluding totalitarian states).

In the modern free world, the inferred rights of forum members to discuss whatever they want within the forum's set parameters is akin to being able to use any kind of bar tape on a handlebar, unless it is specifically stated otherwise.

To have a thread like the Lew one stopped is strange. Although like Pez suggested, perhaps it's a simple, valid reason we're all missing... in that case, decorum dictates that we be enlightened to this.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:20 am
by CharlesM
I'm not saying "rights" nor demanding.


I don't think it unreasonable to ask and we are in no way beholden to moderators in the same fashion a child is to it's parent.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:10 am
by ergott
I don't feel I have the "right" to know, but one of the things that keeps me coming back to this forum is the relative transparency of the mods.

They have every right to ignore the requests for more information. However, it has to be understood that if there is an overall reduction in the perceived quality of this forum, it will attract fewer people (or a different sort of people). People have no problem looking around for someplace better if there is one. There are lots of forums out there and you have to find the one/ones that suit you.

A successful forum will carefully listen the the users if they wish to remain successful (success not always defined by money). That is the real issue, not freedom of speech or anything like that. No one has any rights here beyond the rights given to us by the owners. You/I don't like it, leave. Some do and some don't.

-Eric

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:23 am
by jjmstang
Enquiring minds want to know :P

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:07 am
by Gert Jan Theunisse
Weight Weenies owes us nothing. They give us a well-organized forum to say pretty much anything that's on our mind. In creating this site they've brought together (mostly) like-minded enthusiasts who can share info, advice, etc. Instead of debating the level of their lack of decorum, nerve, etc. to move a topic without providing an explanation, how about a thank you for all this site offers rather than this perceived "offense?"

We're a headstrong, opinionated, group of people. Perhaps if we bombard this topic with repeated demands the Moderator would relent. But really, can't we just let it go?

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:35 am
by bJay
This thread is starting to look like another one for the forum bin :D

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:08 am
by Danton
The LEW thread was just 17 pages of people going "that sucks" when user Dominic got let down by Paul Lew / Lee Vaccaro. It might be deleted but many will remember and by repeating this now, I'm reminding anyone else.

During the 17 pages, I asked that the thread be locked until we got some news as it was just turning into a mob demanding Mr Lew's blood!

LEW

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:28 am
by Leloby
It was a crap thread anyway.

Image

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:10 pm
by synchronicity
Actually the administrators can do whatever they like with the forum. Just because people from the public join in doesn't mean it's a democracy. :lol:

Forums are like private parties - you're invited but you can be asked to leave. Also, it's usually up to the party organisers to clean up the junk. :wink:

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:03 pm
by J-Nice
Starter wrote:If you reside in the states, check out some reading on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, some pretty interesting examples of inferred rights, how they've come to be such, and even the laws that have been put into place because of them... Fascinating stuff if you're a history buff. :D


What we have here in the states is a REPRESENTATIVE democracy. We ELECT people to act on our behalf. Those elected officials make the rules we are governed under, not the hoi polloi.

And as such in this two party system of ours, there is a guarantee that about 50% or so of the population's voice will not be heard, as our process deems it a "winner take all" type of deal for the ruling party.

There is no community rule as you have erroneously stated. It would be chaos if that were how government was run in the US.

As for the mods, they have a stated mission as requested by the site administrator, who is the one who makes the rules, not the community.

No one besides them know what goes on behind the scenes. Frankie B's explanation may have come across as a bit obnoxious, but it's his site. He can do what he wants.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:37 pm
by Cyco
WW Rules and Regs Take note of rule 1. l

This thread has been under discussion for removal in the mod forum since shortly after it moved from discussion of the OP's issues and degenerated into (mainly) 'Lew sucks' comments by many people who have nothing other to add.

Many threads undergo this consideration, but most die quickly and so are left on the public boards. Frankie made the decision it was past its use by date and moved it.

Starter wrote:Again, just do some quick reading and I think you'll see where I'm coming from. It's not about demanding anything, it's about what people naturally and reasonably expect based on what is valued universally within our society (excluding totalitarian states).

In the modern free world, the inferred rights of forum members to discuss whatever they want within the forum's set parameters is akin to being able to use any kind of bar tape on a handlebar, unless it is specifically stated otherwise


WW is a totalitarian state.