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Re: NEW! '09 EE Brakes!

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:37 am
by FreaK
Starter wrote:Actually, it is.

Unless, of course, you're aware of some US made bike components that aren't up to snuff? Thomson, maybe? Perhaps Ciamillo doesn't meet your standards? Callfee or Crumpton seem a bit shoddily made to you?

Of course, it's hard to compare any of the garbage cycling gear we make to all the fine stuff coming out of... Norway.

Oi! Mate!

Take it easy. Just because there are exceptional examples does not by definition make a country of 100 million the last word in quality.

and for the record the dutch aren't from Norway.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:15 am
by CharlesM
Good God (or Alah or Budah or whatever)

Could we (us... all of us) please knock off the whole -beep-ing Nationalistic crap?


[Edit: Beeped the beep word - Ras]

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:27 am
by Gazelleer
I like the design of the brakes, finally something different than dual pivot that actually makes sense! Not that there is anything wrong with dual pivot but I think that other cable actuated designs could be lighter, more compact and equally powerful. Let's see how it works out!

Just put that spring behind the brake!

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:41 pm
by Rasmus
I agree. Nationality doesn't play a role in this.
(Dutch people are from Holland. Not Norway. Not Denmark. And Danish people are not from Holland. I don't know why but it's a common misconception I've encountered numerous times over here. There, had to get it out of my system.)

Now, let's talk about the brakes. I have frontal, side and rear shots of the EE brakes next to KCNC and AX. The guys at FWB kindly let me mess around with them a bit. Pics will be up tomorrow along with the rest of my pics from IB.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:37 pm
by corky
+1 JVS

My interest is peeked....looked forward to the pics Rasmus :D

Re: NEW! '09 EE Brakes!

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:22 pm
by DocRay
[Edit: empty post, didn't add anything to the debate - Ras]

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:25 pm
by nicrump
EE brake first impressions

Ok, sue me, I didn’t weigh them before installation. I don’t care, when I was handed the box I thought to myself “thanks for the empty box bub” I think we have plenty of reports on just at 100g per wheel. Right?

Part in hand. Feel very light. Looks cool and is nicely anodized. Is much smaller than the impression you get from pics. Mostly some small CNC alu pits, hollow pins and bushings. And a cool single arc spring which can apparently be hand tuned for those who care. I find the stock return and resistance to be just about perfect but I will probably play with it just for grins.

Ok, they went on really easily. Really smart people could probably toss the instructions but I recommend them. You find out real quick that the caliper is held onto a post by a pinch bolt and the post is one with the mounting post. I chose to follow Craig’s lead in the docs and pull the two apart. I think you might get away without this but it insures good geometry and lubrication in your setup.

The setup is a touch more complicated than an ordinary DA or Record but I still found it quite simple. There are a couple of key geometry related adjustments that are important to nail for good performance.

The are clearly called out in the docs but are essentially

1. the parallelness (is this a word?) of the 2 lines drawn through the pad attachment point and the two larger pivots.

2. The 7/8” to 1” distance from the barrel holder to the QR lever. These are most likely dictated by rim width and actual distance of your brake mount hole on the bike/fork.

The brakes came with pad holders, no pad and require Shimano. I put a pair of Mavic branded yellow “carbon pads” Is there much diff?? Anyway, pad changes are about as simple as can be. No tools, No forcing, No lube or tap tap tap. You simply pop the rear end of the pad inwards(centerline of the bike) and slide. Craig put a nice little notch which nests in the groove in a DA pad quite nicely.

On the road. Ran with the yellow blocks on both Edge 38s and Campy Proton Alu.. What can I say, I didn’t do any measured stop tests but I know how my DAs perform with these wheels. I am an idiot who always uses the black DA pads on everything so these results are not dead head to head. I’ll get those out next week.

Yellow pad on Edge 38. Far better than ever. Feels better(stopping power) than my black DAs on Aluminum. That is saying a lot! Modulation is about the same to slightly more than my DAs. These are very analog feeling and I like it.

Yellow pad on Alum. Better than I imagined for miss-match materials but missing just a slight bit. Modulation obviously still right on. I think the stopping power judgment here is not fair. When I get some more DA rubber in here I’ll pop em on and give an update but I have no reason to think they will not match or beat the performance of the DA calipers.

Other comments. No rattles as someone suggested. Very tight. No need for lubrication(on pivots), all self lubing polymer bushings. Cant say how difficult to keep clean, hasn’t been long enough. So I’ll report back on these points as well as black pads on Alu.

I guess right off the back the upshot is true a weight weenie brake with no performance loss, actual or perceived through feel. What I mean is they are not like apple to oranges as so many WW brakes against the “standards” are. So it’s a $ to gram thing. You either want them or you don’t. If you get them, at least in the first few rides, you should not be disappointed.


Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:14 pm
by Adrien
Thanks for the report!
So bad you didn't weight them. We are on WW forum here!

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:47 pm
by mythical
Excellent write up Nick. I'm gonna see if my findings are conforming to yours. ;)

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:53 am
by madcow
I wrote up a review here:

If I had to sum it up in one word: Surreal.

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:19 pm
by Rasmus
As promised, the pics I took of the EE brakes at the FWB booth are on the third page of thumbnails in the FWB and Ruegamer gallery:

Re: NEW! '09 EE Brakes!

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:03 am
by Starter
FreaK wrote:
Oi! Mate!

Take it easy. Just because there are exceptional examples does not by definition make a country of 100 million the last word in quality.

and for the record the dutch aren't from Norway.

I'll be the first to admit the US has some products that are shoddily made, it's just that none of them happen to be cycling related... so it irks me when it's insinuated that they are. Fact is, as HanSolo pointed out, most US-made cycling stuff is pretty synonymous with quality. Now our cars on the other hand... :roll:

But yes, I'll quit the nationalistic crap now... too much time sitting post-ride in front of MSNBC with my bottle of Recoverite... :lol:

Just one last thing though: where the hell are people getting Dutch from? Okr's sig says his location is in Norway, that's why I mentioned Norway... who brought up the Dutch? My brother-in-law is Dutch... He's seriously like six feet ten... :lol:

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:14 pm
by HammerTime2
Perhaps it's more accurate to say that the U.S made cycling products typically discussed on this board are high quality (possibly modulo a certain high end wheel/rim manufacturer who didn't have a booth at 2008 Interbike). However, there are plenty of U.S. "made" bicycle products (sold at Walmart, Target, Kmart, etc.) which are total crap, although perhaps most of that is no longer actually made in U.S., but comes from China, Indonesia, or elsewhere.

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:02 pm
by FreaK
I thought you were responding to mythical. I spaced. whatever.

I like-a zee brakes..

as far as the national quality thing goes, it is neither here nor there. itallian made doesn't mean better than taiwanese made, doesn't mean better than german or swiss made etc. hence usa-made does not an argument make. Each product has to stand on its own. and FFS thomson had better be well made they've been making the same two products since the dawn of mountainbiking.

right... carry on folks

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:14 pm
by FreaK
DaveS wrote:I wonder if they were smart enough to significantly reduce the force produced by the rear brake. It seems like most brands except Campy forget that a rear brake made just like the front will be prone to easy rear wheel lockup.

here's actually a more interesting thread to follow as it actually pertains to bicycling in a real sense.
My feeling is that reducing braking power is never really beneficial, especially since one can always just squeeze softer, and rims get dirty, and pads get contaminated. If you grab the brakes the same way you do in a car- as though they are linked, and haven't learned to feather then maybe you get an actual benefit. Really though it's more of an excuse to make one brake cheaper and simpler than the other since campy simply resorts to using a single pivot on the back.

Obviously for mountainbiking where one may be manouvering on the rear wheel or even going backwards, rear brake power is more important.