New wheels FFWD!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
composite
Posts: 83
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Location: Somewhere flat, wet and cold..

by composite

@ Amadeus: the braking surface -to me, i can't measure minimal tolerances- seems very smooth and equal.
There are no visible dents or humps/bumps in the rim itself, also not in the clearcoat.
I have also seen Campa Hyperons, and to me these rims (surface-wise) don't seem very different.
The rim width feels constant (when checked by hand and visually) and when i brake it doesn't have a pulsing feel to it, so i guess the rim is constant in width.
Also -i believe- next year/2009 season FFWD have a "colour-trick" up their sleeve.......
"Gee Brain, what are we going to do tonight? The same thing we do every night Pinky, try to carbonize the world!!!"

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Amadeus
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by Amadeus

That sounds really good.

I know they had some difficulties with the rims.

Recently I had a pair in my hands at Zoran's place in Norg (Zoran Kalaba is a good wheelbuilder and does or at least did the wheelbuilding for FFWD) and those rims where not up to scratch.

It is a good thing if they seem to have this issue under control now.

I hope you enjoy thewheels.
My bike is Italian so it is Nervosa and of course has Anorexia I like them thin!
GIOS "New" Carbon Ultra 2006 Campa Record+Special parts.
GIOS "New" A90 2008 Campa Record+Special parts. My winter and vacation bike.

composite
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:09 am
Location: Somewhere flat, wet and cold..

by composite

Yep, i'm enjoying them allright! :D I love the nimble feel they give my bike....although i'm still a bit hessitant to switch to tubulars (so far i've been a clincher kinda guy..).
Speaking of wich: for a set of F2's would the Tufo's S3 <215 be any good?
I mean for such al light wheelset i would like to go for a light tubular. I love the clincher Conti GP4000 , but the tub is over 250 grams!! I think that is a bit too heavy.
So does anybody have any suggestions on a +/- 200 gram, (reasonably) reliable, grippy tubular?

Thanx!
"Gee Brain, what are we going to do tonight? The same thing we do every night Pinky, try to carbonize the world!!!"

gumgardner
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Location: Pittsburgh

by gumgardner

composite wrote:So does anybody have any suggestions on a +/- 200 gram, (reasonably) reliable, grippy tubular?

Thanx!


If you're willing to spend over $130per tire, then yes there are quite a few. At 270g per tire, you are very close to the clincher version of the GP4000s when you take into account a tube. Then factor in the weight savings of the rim...tubular clearly wins in weight.

Clincher:
205 x 2=410
70 (michelin ultra) tubes x 2 = 140
Total = 550g

Tubular:
270 x 2 = 540g
glue= about 10-15g
Total = 550g

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

Speaking of wich: for a set of F2's would the Tufo's S3 <215 be any good?


I'm afraid not.
If you want to go with lighter tubulars check out Veloflex Servizio Corse and the like and accept the fact that you may well puncture more often and that they're only 20mm wide which means that you'll have to be careful in tight bends.
If you don't mind the weight (roughly 260g) than the Veloflex Carbon or Criterium may bring nirwana to you.

Basically, if you want to go fast and weight isn't the prime criterium good brands are FMB, Dugast, Veloflex, Vittoria, Vredestein, Challenge, Deda Tre (heavy but exremely low CRR).

At the end of the day I inevitably find the Veloflex Carbon tubular to be balanced best for what I expect from a tubular, it's not the fasted nor the lightest but it's an extremely well balanced tyre.
Lots of people love it, I can see why.
If anyone knows of a lighter tubular with similar characteristics, let me know.

Ciao, :wink:
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

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mythical
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by mythical

fdegrove wrote:If you want to go with lighter tubulars check out Veloflex Servizio Corse and the like and accept the fact that you may well puncture more often and that they're only 20mm wide which means that you'll have to be careful in tight bends.

I beg to differ. 20mm tubulars are no more puncture prone than bigger tires, particularly when kept at the right pressure. Any unlucky foreign object penetrating your tire will do the trick, regardless of tire size! You will typically run smaller tires at a higher pressure and they have a higher rolling resistance than wider tires, but there's an offset in aerodynamic footprint which somewhat balances the increase in rolling resistance.

Then there's the cornering. Being round instead of c-shaped with bead hooks, tubulars are inherently more flexible, henceforth enabling cornering at higher speeds without losing grip. There's nothing that says you can't corner faster with a 23mm, in fact, a 3mm decrease in ride height, therefore a lower center of gravity, makes for even more stable cornering. The only concern with 20mm tires that I think fdegrove warns for, is that your pedals tend to hit the ground sooner when pedaling while leaning into a corner.

Another benefit of a tubular tire is that you can ride home on them despite a puncture, be it carefully so you don't damage the rim.

One of my personal favorites are 20mm Schwalbe Stelvio Tubulars, which weighed about 180, looked good in all black with white logo's, and have no innertube since it's one piece vulcanized with the tire. Just take some Vittoria Pit Stop and a pump/Co2 canister and you should be fine for the majority of punctures.

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

@Mythical:

My remark about the 20mm Veloflex Servizio Corse tubulars being more prone to puncture than your average 23mm tubular has to do with their construction.
Those are very lightweight and hence have less material to protect them.
Besides that, yes I do feel a 20mm tubular corners quite differently to a 23mm one.
It sure does takes some getting used to and you won't see me on a 20mm in the pouring rain during a technically demanding descent...The contact patch is just too narrow to be safe.

BTW, the 19-20-21-23-25mm figures refer to the width of the tyres which doesn't have much of an impact on the height with respect to the ground.
It does change the circumference somewhat so, ideally, one should recalibrate the speed sensor on the bike.

Also, I don't think the Stelvio tubular is made in the 700x20C standard but rather 19C, 22C and 25C. Of those only the 19C one would weigh about 180g/ea.

Ciao, :wink:
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

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mythical
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by mythical

fdegrove, I see you know your way around Google ;) You be good now!

Anyway, my Schwalbe Stelvio Tubulars were 19 and 22mm, not 20mm. My Veloflex however were 20mm and 22mm. I rode so many tires over the years, they're hard to keep them apart. :D

I had no problems on a 20mm tubular in the rain. Worse is if you're tire is flat on top and you, for example, cross tram rails! :? Had that happen twice in less than a km where my rear wheel skid out way to the side. Veyr annoying! I managed to keep my bike on track though. 8)

Even tire width can differ with rims. Height differs with which rim is used and what kinda profile the rim bed has. For example, Conti's don't work ideally with a rim that doesn't have a groove in it's bed, like the Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL Tubulars I used to have 7 years ago. :roll:

composite
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Location: Somewhere flat, wet and cold..

by composite

Guys: on the Veloflex site it says about the Servizio Corse that the front will last for 6000 km , and the rear 3000 km, is this realistic? And if yes how is your experience with the puncture resistance?
I'm thinking of going to tubulars (FFWD F2's), and these are amongst my favorites..
"Gee Brain, what are we going to do tonight? The same thing we do every night Pinky, try to carbonize the world!!!"

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

composite wrote:Guys: on the Veloflex site it says about the Servizio Corse that the front will last for 6000 km , and the rear 3000 km, is this realistic? And if yes how is your experience with the puncture resistance?
I'm thinking of going to tubulars (FFWD F2's), and these are amongst my favorites..


Hi,

IMO a little optimistic as far as the rear is concerned.
Most of the time you'll puncture a couple of times before their end of life but that's true for most tyres.
I avoid riding them shortly after long periods of rainfall when the roads are awash with fresh debris.

Ciao, :wink:
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

composite
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:09 am
Location: Somewhere flat, wet and cold..

by composite

Stumbled upon some 2009 news for FFWD: White F2R's!! Nice!!!

http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... iteqb7.jpg

About 50 grams heavier then the standard (non-painted) F2R's, and aprox. 1500 and 1900 euro's (DT 240 hubs or DT190).

I think they are one of the first/the only guys making white, carbon tubular wheels.
Don't know if they already are on their website ( www.ffwdwheels.com ).
"Gee Brain, what are we going to do tonight? The same thing we do every night Pinky, try to carbonize the world!!!"

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micky
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by micky

Not the first.
Ask LW.

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Willier
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:37 pm

by Willier

micky wrote:Not the first.
Ask LW.


Yes, LW used white carbon, but these are painted
"Smart may have the answers, but stupid have all the interesting questions."

izzo
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:33 pm

by izzo

I enjoy climbing high, so I am completely into F2R240s wheels because of their low weight 1050g. It took me rather with a surprise that stiffness of extra light wheels is so low :( Some tests revieled (unfortunately FFWD wheels were not tested) that heavy riders will suffer sever power loss with these kind a wheels. Since i weight some 75 kg I am wondering if these wheels are right for me? Are they stiff enough? Weight limit is 80kg but hey, 75 kg is no so away either, specialy because my riding position (sprints, riding on power with low frequebcy, riding on the wheels) add some more inconvenience to the stiffness factor! Also my firend conciders buying these wheels having 70 kg and more stable ride (sitting position, no sprints etc.)

What do you suggest, shall I go for it or maybe some DURA ACE 7801 carbon wheels weighting 1310g would be a better idea? What if i lose some more kilos, would 70 kg be small enough?

bye

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beatnik
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by beatnik

Rims are made by Karbona, and wheelsets are too expensive imo
Biomechanical spreadsheet. Sizing&Fitting.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 8e319d185b

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