Weight Weenies

The Rolf Vigor and American Classic 420 were compared in an earlier thread when the conversation turned to the lighter 350 rim:
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2442

How about comparing the fully built Rolf Elan vs. American Classic 350? Superlite wrote about the rims:

The first 350's and the original elan are the same rim.

The new 350's and the aero elan share the same rim.

How is the original 350 rim (Elan) different from the new 350 rim (Elan Aero)? Does Rolf use 2 vintages of the AC 350 rim for the Elan vs. Elan Aero? The 350 rims are not welded - has anybody else had problems with braking as mentioned in another thread?
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2533

from our rolf rep (hes an independent and carries a bunch of products)

he said that for 04 the rims are outsourced (he specifically said they werent AC rims) and that in 03 the hubs were AC and in 04 they are white industry hubs..

he might be wrong, because i thought they were ac rims. but we have a set at work and they are sweet, my wheels weigh less, but thats apple to oranges (tubular to clinchers )

we also have a set of the heavier set for demo and we have sold 8 pairs in a few months, and we do almost no high end aftermarket wheel sales

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Funny that this thread started today. I was just searching the archives on Rolf wheels.

cirroc wrote:The Rolf Vigor and American Classic 420 were compared in an earlier thread when the conversation turned to the lighter 350 rim:
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2442

How about comparing the fully built Rolf Elan vs. American Classic 350? Superlite wrote about the rims:

The first 350's and the original elan are the same rim.

The new 350's and the aero elan share the same rim.

How is the original 350 rim (Elan) different from the new 350 rim (Elan Aero)? Does Rolf use 2 vintages of the AC 350 rim for the Elan vs. Elan Aero? The 350 rims are not welded - has anybody else had problems with braking as mentioned in another thread?
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2533

I've got the Elans (2003) and if you read the previous threads, I talked about them there also. I've never had a single problem with them and I'm 80kg, ride on all surfaces and in all weather. The brakes you use will make a difference, I was using the cane creek sl200 brakes and they sucked on those rims, so took them off and put the records back on. Supposedly the 2004 use different hub internals .. and the 2003's that I have use the AC internals. You can check their website and call the Rolf guy directly and talk to him. They stand behind their wheels. The rolf guy said they aren't the same as the 350's but I suspect they're very similar with a differnt spoke pattern. I think that the aero's and regular elans use the same rims, just the spokes are different. Don't know how they compare to the AC 350's but the hubs and spoke pairing are a completely different design, I'm not going to say it's better but I'm willing to bet they're stiffer because the spoke tensions are very high on the rolfs. Hammering hard up hills or on a fast descent, never felt unstable or too flexy.

Comparing them with other wheels I own, I've got the ksyrium equipes on another bike, they spin up faster then the equipes but I do like the braking surface better on the equipes.. durability IMO have been the same if not better on the rolfs, but I've only got about 1500 miles on the equipe's and over 6k miles on the elans. Maybe a small point, but the elans are the quietest wheels I've owned, more quiet then the rolf sestrieres I used to have, particularly the rear hub. The only thing I'm concerned about is that I replaced a spoke that busted when a rollerblader ran into me when I was stopped (20 miles from home, that was a bad day! ). I was told that once you replace a spoke on a rolf, the others tend to go because the tensions are very balanced and disrupting one on a high-tension spoked wheel can cause a domino effect as the wheel ages.

Bottom line, would I buy them again.. you bet! But my next set of wheels will be tubulars.

Thanks for all the replies and lots of good info! What's the general opinion on White Industries vs. AC hubs?

he said that for 04 the rims are outsourced (he specifically said they werent AC rims) and that in 03 the hubs were AC and in 04 they are white industry hubs..

I'm very happy with my AC rims.

I've no experience with WI hubs (so I'll be reading on).

cirroc wrote:Thanks for all the replies and lots of good info! What's the general opinion on White Industries vs. AC hubs?

he said that for 04 the rims are outsourced (he specifically said they werent AC rims) and that in 03 the hubs were AC and in 04 they are white industry hubs..

Again, according to the Rolf rep I spoke with, the AC hubs are lighter but the WI's are better bearings. If there has been a problem with the AC's it has basically occured in the first 100 miles. If one has the 2003's with the AC's and they are working fine (in my case) then just stick with them, many happy miles should come out of them. When it's time to replace or do maintenance, then it's a good idea to switch to the WI's.

Please disregard my previous attempt at subtly.

I've just pulled my AC micro rear hub apart again to find the bearings are shot. (I've pulled them apart after each of my 40km races).

Tip one has to be don't over tighten them.
Tip two is don't even consider riding them near water (lack of rubber seals).

Can anyone suggest a quality hub of around the same size (to avoid new spokes)? I'm not sure I want to replace the bearings in a hub I've never been happy with.

[One bearing was jammed solid, but with clamp I got it moving again. The sealed bearings arn't sealed, keep them from water and lube them occassionaly.
I'm still looking to replace the hub, the bearings are still gritty]

Bruiser wrote:I've just pulled my AC micro rear hub apart again to find the bearings are shot. (I've pulled them apart after each of my 40km races).

I"m not one do defend AC micro bearing rear hubs and I greatly dislike that my rolf rear hub uses them.. nevertheless, I was told that the reinstall of those bearings has been problematic (i.e., seized hubs afterwards) due to a funky retaining spring design. What looks like the obvious way to reinstall them isn't and has resulted in bearings being ruined. I don't know if AC is standing behind their crappy design but I know that Rolf will replace the bearings with the non-AC ones (so I was told by them) if they're ruined .. but when getting some of the wheels back that were seized they found them reinstalled improperly and in those cases they wouldn't do a warrenty replacement. Anyway, I haven't touched my rear hub bearings (other then just to tighten them) and don't plan to until I get a problem.. knock on wood, hasn't happened yet.

cirroc wrote:Thanks for all the replies and lots of good info! What's the general opinion on White Industries vs. AC hubs?

I have White Industries hubs (Racer X rear; LTA front) on a pair of Dave Thomas SpeedDream Aerolite wheels. They have been flawless from day one. Thomas used to use AC and moved to White. Apparently Rolf has moved from AC to White internals. Reynolds uses White. The problems with AC hub internals (esp. rear) have been recounted on this forum countless times. I'm not sure that the AC problems are confined to the first 100 miles (not my experience at least). There are no threads describing any problems with White.

...with the AC rear hub the newer model? AC has switched bearing manufacturers and are now using a different lube (not the marine grease).

cadence90 wrote: I'm not sure that the AC problems are confined to the first 100 miles (not my experience at least).

Actually.. me either. I'm just quoting what the Rolfprima rep told me when I called them direct. And he was referring only to the rolf hubs which have only been manufactured this past year. Not sure if it's a good sample set of all AC micro bearings.

Apparently Rolf has moved from AC to White internals.

Again, according to the Rolf rep I spoke with, the AC hubs are lighter but the WI's are better bearings.

The WI bearings look like a nice improvement. In addition to WI internals, the 2004 hub shells look completely new. Does this add any significant weight to the 2004 wheels? Anybody out there with the 2004 Elan Aeros want to mention if they are holding to the (still) advertised weight of 1295g?

When are the members of this forum going to stop supporting AC? This series of posts has to be the end of our support of this BS laden company. I have two pairs of WI wheels (Rocket 88's on a tandem (Dave Thomas) and whatever Reynolds uses on the Cirro's and both are Campy/Shimano equals- 'nuff said.......

C-40 wrote:When are the members of this forum going to stop supporting AC? This series of posts has to be the end of our support of this BS laden company. I have two pairs of WI wheels (Rocket 88's on a tandem (Dave Thomas) and whatever Reynolds uses on the Cirro's and both are Campy/Shimano equals- 'nuff said.......

Yes we all know from you numerous posts that you do not like American Classic wheels. You and others have had poor luck with their products and or customer support while others here have not. Is it really necessary to continue to bash them?

Overall this is a rather positive forum can we keep it that way?

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