The Ulimate Frame - Aluminium

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Enda Marron
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 6:03 pm
Location: Belfast

by Enda Marron

What is the ultimate aluminium frame; Principia, Cannondale, Teschner, Pegoretti, DeRosa, Pinerello, Storck?
How do we decide- metals in the alloy, weight, stiffness, longevity, finish, geometry,cost!?
Various magazines and reviewers have given their opinions and no doubt egineers have run tests, but what is the top frame?
I have it on good authority that the Storck EVO is up there, apparently the presidents of Cannondale and Principia own Storcks and they are the inspiration for their frames, and that there a re rebadged Storcks aplenty in the grand tours! Discuss

by Weenie


benz76
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:00 am
Location: Reggio Emilia, ITALY

by benz76

It's a very hard question...

IMO Pinarello makes very good alu frames (on the heavish side...), De Rosa are very good too (they're lighter than Pinarellos). One of less talked about manufactures is Carrera: check their bikes out, cause they're light, well made and they have years of pro-riders experience. All of theese manufacturers build bikes with Dedacciai tubing (although Pinarello uses very custom ones).

The history of rebadging is old as TDF... I wouldn't say a bike is a rebadged one until I've got proofs (e.g. Rebellin's Wilier / Scott, or Armstong 90s Trek/Litespeed).

Bye, Benz.

popawheelie
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:42 pm
Location: in Colorado

by popawheelie

Do you consider scandium an aluminum alloy?

Weisse Luft
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:44 pm
Location: All over Texas

by Weisse Luft

popawheelie wrote:Do you consider scandium an aluminum alloy?


Yes. Pure Sc would be prohibitively expensive and far too weak.

_JJ_
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:03 pm

by _JJ_

Here is one that has yet to be mentioned anywhere on this forum.

http://www.ellsworthbikes.com/bikes/flight/index.cfm

Racing Aardvark
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:44 am
Location: Boulder, CO

by Racing Aardvark

The Pros I know who raced on Pinarellos didn't really care for them. They were also heavier than any of them expected.

Personally, I think the question would need to be clarified: is it the ultimate aluminum bike for 1 season or for 5?

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nzkiwiguy
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:18 pm
Location: Colorado

by nzkiwiguy

A couple to throw in the mix

the litespeed alloy frames are nice, light and responsive. But they do have some hideous colors.

Titus - drop-u frame is a great frame as well

Principia probably for me

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Superlite
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:01 pm

by Superlite

popawheelie wrote:
Do you consider scandium an aluminum alloy?

Weisse Luft wrote:
Yes. Pure Sc would be prohibitively expensive and far too weak.


You know a pure metal isn't an alloy.

Also, no one would ever want to make a pure scandium frame. Scandium is a grain refiner for aluminum the strengthens it's bonds. It is alloyed with aluminum in small quantities ( somewhere around 3%) to make scandium alloy (it's really an aluminum alloy seeing how it is over 90% aluminum, but the guys in marketing thought calling it a "scandium frame" sounds more impressive.)

popawheelie
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:42 pm
Location: in Colorado

by popawheelie

Thanks Superlite. That's what I meant. Scemantics, Shemantics.
Does the list include them or not!
I Think it should.

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ks_rider
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: Wichita, KS USA

by ks_rider

I would think that the Scott C-1 is the lightest Scandium frame around at 950 grams and U2 frames as light as 860 grams for Agresti. There is a Denti Solo frame that is U2 tubing and on Murabikes site, is tuned down to 789 grams. :shock: I don't know what size the frame is, it does look extremely small. I don't think it even has clearcoat on it. :?

Beeble
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:53 pm

by Beeble

BMC is extremely good. A pro that lives near me said it is a lot better than Pinarello!!!

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martin
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:49 am
Location: München
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by martin

Enda Marron wrote:What is the ultimate aluminium frame; Principia, Cannondale, Teschner, Pegoretti, DeRosa, Pinerello, Storck?
How do we decide- metals in the alloy, weight, stiffness, longevity, finish, geometry,cost!?
Various magazines and reviewers have given their opinions and no doubt egineers have run tests, but what is the top frame?
I have it on good authority that the Storck EVO is up there, apparently the presidents of Cannondale and Principia own Storcks and they are the inspiration for their frames, and that there a re rebadged Storcks aplenty in the grand tours! Discuss

(Pegoretti builds Al too? i thought they excel in steel)

Sounds like the question for a thesis :-)

A racing bike should be as light as possible without sacrificing stiffness or durability. If it looks nice, too, all the better
How much stiffness you need is debatable. I personally like them as stiff as possible.

I notice you forgot Klein in your list. I think the earlier Kleins (when the company was still independent) were the first frames that made the most out of Aluminium.
Examples from the early nineties (Quantum Pro and Quantum II) are still competitive in Weight and especially Stiffness/weight. Outstanding build quality and excellent paintjobs, too! I rate them as the best Al frames there are beause of their overall quality.

Cannondale, Principia and Storck as Klein copies are on the same level and may well have topped the original. Unfortunately Cannondale has taken a kneefall to fashion and uses Al/Carbon mixture now, which in my opinion toes not benefit a frame.
Partly for the same reason I don't care much for italian Al frames.
And the welds of the first Al. Bianchis, Pinarellos and de Rosas were simply awful.
I like the very pretty De Rosa Merak, but they are rumoured to break easily.

Geometry: difficult issue. I think no major brand builds frame geometries that are just plain bad. There are agile frames, and there are well balanced ones - i think it is futile to discuss which one is better. Testride some and get the one which suits you best.
I own two Principias which are bombproof on highspeed descents but have to be forced into tight turns, they feel like a truck compared to the Scott Team Issue which is almost nervous - "italian" geometry :-) . I prefer the Scott.

Modern Sc Frames like the Scott Team Issue '03 or other superlight frames (you mentioned Teschner) can be built lighter, but they have to prove they can last - time will tell.
If you value durability over lightness, stay away from U2 tubing. Teschner for example reduces warranty from 10 years for his Sc frames to 2 years for U2 frames. And Sc frames are possibly not built to last forever, too.

Martin
PS: And as superlite said, a "Scandium" frame contains as much Scandium as an Aluminium frame contains Copper, Titan and Silizium. So every Al frame could be called "Copper" with the same right :)
Snowman and Strong Walker
Scott Sc
my old stuff
my new stuff

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Ye Olde Balde One
Posts: 495
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:26 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA

by Ye Olde Balde One

It's the one you most like to ride.
Ride lightly!

bobalou
Posts: 1013
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:05 am

by bobalou

Fondriest don racer is a nice one. Italian geometry, very light and quality build. Kind of pricey though.

by Weenie


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zoey
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by zoey

bobalou wrote:Fondriest don racer is a nice one. Italian geometry, very light and quality build. Kind of pricey though.



Who builds them? How about the carbon Fondriest frames (Top)?
Cheers,
:lol:

"Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

Click Here to see my Scott CR1.

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