Incoming: Seka Spear, '690g' frameset

[wheelsONfire]

I don't think SEKA have made a good move with these sizes they use.
From M (543mm), MR (538mm) to L (570mm) is a hefty change in stack. Be it that all frames uses a much needed headset spacer of 10mm.
I'd say the LR is out as it has too long reach just as Specialized.
I'd go for L, but with a separate stem and bar. I'd go for columbus trittico stem if the routing was working out without hickups.
I have contacted Floarian bikes at 4 occasions, but they avoided answering the questions i asked.
I looked for a price suggestion on a complete build with separate stem and handlebar.
So for sure more European dealers is good.

You don't understand/read that R represents for racing geo?

Yes ofcourse i do.

[wheelsONfire]

I don't think SEKA have made a good move with these sizes they use.
From M (543mm), MR (538mm) to L (570mm) is a hefty change in stack. Be it that all frames uses a much needed headset spacer of 10mm.
I'd say the LR is out as it has too long reach just as Specialized.
I'd go for L, but with a separate stem and bar. I'd go for columbus trittico stem if the routing was working out without hickups.
I have contacted Floarian bikes at 4 occasions, but they avoided answering the questions i asked.
I looked for a price suggestion on a complete build with separate stem and handlebar.
So for sure more European dealers is good.

Ignoring MR as that's a completely different geo, there's 27mm in stack height difference from M to L - how is that a lot? If I was running a M with 0-10mm spacers, I'd be fairly well positioned and not concerned at all about size L. With 20mm spacers (on top of headset spacer), a size M would still look decent - I could decide to size up and only be 7mm higher by removing all the spacers. At 30mm spacers on an M, I could still be on an M but it might look not-so-great, so I would strongly consider sizing up and have a slammed cockpit on an L.

If there were huge changes in reach, then I would be far more concerned. But those gaps in stack are hardly "hefty", IMO.

Well, not for you but for me. I'd rather have the L but with a lower stem (that is stem + handlebar, not an integrated cockpit)

[wheelsONfire]

I think it’s fair to assume when a size M has 543mm stack, then the next size up usually has around 559-564mm stack. If we use metric sizing a 540-545mm stack bike is clearly a 54cm and I would label a 570-575mm bike as a 57cm.

That 564mm would be ok if it was stack incl headset with the needed spacer for internal routing.

[gloscherrybomb]

Hot take:

People are different shapes and sizes and there is not a 'correct' geometry. If all bikes had the same geometry a bunch of people wouldn't be able to fit them. Find the bike that fits you, don't complain that a certain geometry doesn't meet your needs.

[Kubackjeee]

Hot take:

People are different shapes and sizes and there is not a 'correct' geometry. If all bikes had the same geometry a bunch of people wouldn't be able to fit them. Find the bike that fits you, don't complain that a certain geometry doesn't meet your needs.

+1

[TobinHatesYou]

Hot take:

People are different shapes and sizes and there is not a 'correct' geometry. If all bikes had the same geometry a bunch of people wouldn't be able to fit them. Find the bike that fits you, don't complain that a certain geometry doesn't meet your needs.

That’s not what’s being argued. wheelsONfire is pointing out that Seka is essentially selling 50, 52, 54, 57, 60cm bikes when everyone else using metric sizing is doing 2cm jumps. This is a direct result of only having 5 “normal” sizes.

[prendrefeu]

Define "normal" please.

Scott just announced their new Addict RC. *NONE* of the geometries fit me unless I ride with a spacer set exceeding a few cm, which is blah.

Most bike companies design their frames around the most common "European" and "Northern Asian" body type: long torso, shorter limbs. Many of us who also ride have better balanced proportions, and there is also a portion of world's population that has limbs which are longer than torso length.

There is no such thing as "normal."

[prendrefeu]

(edited, nevermind)

[gloscherrybomb]

Hot take:

People are different shapes and sizes and there is not a 'correct' geometry. If all bikes had the same geometry a bunch of people wouldn't be able to fit them. Find the bike that fits you, don't complain that a certain geometry doesn't meet your needs.

That’s not what’s being argued. wheelsONfire is pointing out that Seka is essentially selling 50, 52, 54, 57, 60cm bikes when everyone else using metric sizing is doing 2cm jumps. This is a direct result of only having 5 “normal” sizes.

As said above, there is no normal. There are 7 sizes. If one of those 7 sizes doesn't suit you, look elsewhere. An MR is perfect for me.

[wheelbuilder]

Define "normal" please.

Scott just announced their new Addict RC. *NONE* of the geometries fit me unless I ride with a spacer set exceeding a few cm, which is blah.

Most bike companies design their frames around the most common "European" and "Northern Asian" body type: long torso, shorter limbs. Many of us who also ride have better balanced proportions, and there is also a portion of world's population that has limbs which are longer than torso length.

There is no such thing as "normal."

Yep. Tired of short legged, long torso people ruling the cycling landscape.

[maxim809]

Anyone have any takes on what Seka means by "unfair competition"?

[Kubackjeee]

Hot take:

People are different shapes and sizes and there is not a 'correct' geometry. If all bikes had the same geometry a bunch of people wouldn't be able to fit them. Find the bike that fits you, don't complain that a certain geometry doesn't meet your needs.

That’s not what’s being argued. wheelsONfire is pointing out that Seka is essentially selling 50, 52, 54, 57, 60cm bikes when everyone else using metric sizing is doing 2cm jumps. This is a direct result of only having 5 “normal” sizes.

As said above, there is no normal. There are 7 sizes. If one of those 7 sizes doesn't suit you, look elsewhere. An MR is perfect for me.

It's funny how many poeple stress about a bike they don't wanna buy anyway

[maxim809]

Gonna drop this and work backwards towards the context.

Every brand scales their geometry differently. By graphing various model's Stack/Reach, some of that philosophy begins to reveal itself.

I often find there are 3 components that feed into a geometry's Scaling:



1. Number of Frame Sizes
2. Frame Fit "Type" (Endurance, All-Rounder, Race)
3. Frame Handling Characteristics (may have feedback loop with Fit)

I don't want to get too much into (3) right now, but things like fork options and desired frame angles can set constraints on what happens to the frame's Stack/Reach if the brand takes these into consideration when building the landscape of frame sizes.

For (2), I think we all get that in general, an Endurance frame is more upright and a Race frame is more often long and low.

But let's focus on (1) since that's what we're talking about here. The number of available frame sizes can impact how much the Stack-Reach "jumps" between sizes. How much it jumps is based on where the smallest frame starts and where the largest frame ends, combined with where and how the brand wants to put the most granularity.

Combine all the above and that's the brand's Scaling philosophy.



A model like Pinarello Dogma with 11-13 sizes can get very granular in the Medium ranges, while also expanding across a huge range to smallest and largest sizes to capture fringe statured riders. Pinarello's philosophy is to provide fine granularity for as many riders as possible on a somewhat all-roundish fit type. A model like Time Alpe D'Huez with 4 sizes will see coarse jumps, and I guess their philosophy is "We're being thrifty with molds, hope one of these fit you lol wut happened to us".

Typically most models offer 5~7 sizes that scale linearly, tho some brands are non-linear or have an inflection point on the fringe sizes.

What is unique about the Seka Spear, is that it is 7 sizes but...

• 5 sizes lean slightly Endurance-ish, linearly
• 2 sizes lean deeper into Race fit, linearly

So when WoF is going wtf is up with the Spear's sizing, it's because from his perspective the jumps are coarse within the 5 Endurance-ish frames. And the 2 Race frames are too race-y. He's right the MR/LR are definitely closer to that of a Tarmac which is quite aggressive. If you look past the MR and ML on the graph, you see that the Endurance-ish Spear is scaling Linearly with even more coarse jumps compared to the Seka Exceed.

Moreover, if you can apply a theoretical offset to the Endurance-Spear curve to make it more race-y, the individual sizes would scale slightly out-of-phase compared to the Factor Ostro. It is entirely possible that if the Spear shifted its phase, the granularity or lack thereof could work better for WoF, but obviously could lose some of the population that it works for today.

Anyway to demonstrate the Tarmac, see below.



I feel for Gattsu -- he is right Canyon being a German brand is thinking about tall riders. So with their 7 sizes, the Aeroad stretches out their XL size to a much higher ceiling than most brands. As a result we see very coarse jumps across all sizes.

Take a look at the Scott Foil. Trying to be super aero for the most aggressive riders on the small end.

And finally, 3 Iconic Endurance frames in the graph below.

So if you scroll way back to the top and look at the 1st graph. The axis have been left the same. You need to overlay the curves in your mind's eye. But with these frames of reference....

you will see where the Asian Seka Spear stands in a sea of bikes that was centered around the 5'10 / 178cm average European-American male.

[Requiem84]

Anyone have any takes on what Seka means by "unfair competition"?

EU anti-dumping rules on bicycles, or 'essential bicycle parts' with Chinese origin?

It's quite a complex regulatory field that Chinese companies have to navigate.

[gloscherrybomb]

I'd be surprised if that limited their production capacity. I was wondering if it was labour / factory capacity competition. Someone else came in with a good offer and took available capacity / labour from them.