2024 ENVE Fray

[robeambro]

Got my Fray up an running a couple of weeks ago. The Frame is quite a lot heavier than the marketing statements, 1100g with hanger and bolts in size 58, probably around 1050g without hanger and bolts. The ride is superb though, the bike feels planted on the tarmac in a way my former BMC SLR never did, and that is using the same wheelset on both bikes.

I have one major problem however and a niggle. The problem first, my seatpost is slipping, even when torqued to 6Nm and using carbon paste (Muc off pink one), slips about 1.5 cm every hour. I might have fixed it after a lot of abuse during installation on my last attemt (pulling and pushing the seatpost, then retightening, repeat several times). I also wonder how to get the T47 BB off in an orderly fashion for service, as a T47 tool seems prone to slipping on my Rotor internal 24mm BB. If the Park tool BBR-RS really works I might just get one of them.

20240926_185332.jpg

From what I've read on the FB owners group, this is a well known issue. Enve was shipping replacement seatposts and wedges that were textured in order to fix the issue.

This is one of the things that put me off the purchase.

[jayjay]

I thought the seatpost problem was solved before the release of the Fray?

[Belisarius]

Got my Fray up an running a couple of weeks ago. The Frame is quite a lot heavier than the marketing statements, 1100g with hanger and bolts in size 58, probably around 1050g without hanger and bolts. The ride is superb though, the bike feels planted on the tarmac in a way my former BMC SLR never did, and that is using the same wheelset on both bikes.

I have one major problem however and a niggle. The problem first, my seatpost is slipping, even when torqued to 6Nm and using carbon paste (Muc off pink one), slips about 1.5 cm every hour. I might have fixed it after a lot of abuse during installation on my last attemt (pulling and pushing the seatpost, then retightening, repeat several times). I also wonder how to get the T47 BB off in an orderly fashion for service, as a T47 tool seems prone to slipping on my Rotor internal 24mm BB. If the Park tool BBR-RS really works I might just get one of them.

20240926_185332.jpg

For the seatpost slip, it affects most bike brands out there, whether Colnago, Cannondale System Six, Canyon, and many more. Let's not ask how they troubleshoot it for Pro riders...I solved it permanently and I want to post a topic but have a hard time locating the New Topic here. We tried 2 Colnago seatposts, LBS added texture etc, no effect. Hambinis advice, Hylomar blue, no effect and attack the paint. So unless fusing the seatpost, I was bummed after 4,000 kms and 3d year slipping EVERY ride- in July 2024 I hit rock bottom when it slipped 5-6 mm forcing me to cancer hard workouts. Took my Time for a ride.

The fix: increased Seatpost diameter - initially 0.1mm can foil and JB Weld 5000 PSI marine epoxy. I peeled off the lower foil after 6 hrs to leave just the weld (which starts to look like granite) and create a taper. I did not want the lower part of the seatpost to move while the top was stable. The side diameter increased by 0.23mm or incresin. Inserted, went in with dificulty. ITS TILL SLIPPED 1mm for that first ride. The returned home, ordered 0.1 and 0.2mm brass on Amazon. Stripped the Aluminium tin foil (took 2 hours) got back to seatpost carbon- which feels like metal so tough. Reapplied JB 5000 resin and 0.2mm brass. Forced the Seatpost down to height tapping with a soft mallet and inside the saddle cutout groove. For the Enve seatpost mast, mark the line, hockey puck and mallet taps to force down. Sand as reuied to trim resistant spot (you can use talk powwder first, it shows you where the seatube touches your repair.

Brass is amazing on many levels. Tougher than copper, develops a patina and naturally increases friction as it ages. My seatpost issues solved, after 4,000kms and nearly 100 rides, I could finally push the bike.

For your issue, try 1" wide strip covering the sides and back of the seatpost, bu not the frontal clamping area. 0.1mm or 0.2 mm brass You can of course try prior to resin, see if the 0.2mm fits to begin with. I guarantee you it will not sink after that because you corq the top. And your clamping needs are resolved 1nm lower than Max. Speaking of that, make sure ordering REPLACEMENT M8 high tensile bolts. All this fiddling will strip the bolt and then no riding. And we should not use grease on that bolt ever.

[Belisarius]

Got my Fray up an running a couple of weeks ago. The Frame is quite a lot heavier than the marketing statements, 1100g with hanger and bolts in size 58, probably around 1050g without hanger and bolts. The ride is superb though, the bike feels planted on the tarmac in a way my former BMC SLR never did, and that is using the same wheelset on both bikes.

I have one major problem however and a niggle. The problem first, my seatpost is slipping, even when torqued to 6Nm and using carbon paste (Muc off pink one), slips about 1.5 cm every hour. I might have fixed it after a lot of abuse during installation on my last attemt (pulling and pushing the seatpost, then retightening, repeat several times). I also wonder how to get the T47 BB off in an orderly fashion for service, as a T47 tool seems prone to slipping on my Rotor internal 24mm BB. If the Park tool BBR-RS really works I might just get one of them.

20240926_185332.jpg

Two weeks ago installed a Hambini BB T45 on my Colnago and did the same to his tool and my Non drive side that did not have a deep profile. Novice mistake- I needed pressure against the BB as you rotate it, and why, sometimes, it may be a two person job. One holding the frame while the other pushes in while removing or reinstalling. Or put the frame down against a pillow and gently rotate the tool while keeping pressure on the interface. Hambini told me to use a spanner with his tool, but it gave me no torque numbers. I used the spanner to uninstall, applying pressure while turning CCW. And used a 3/8" adapter to 32 mm hex when installing (torque wrench), pressure while rotating . Aimed for 27 Nm no more. Two days later, creak free, Colnago reacalled my frame and offered a V4Rs instead due to a fatal design flaw (Front mech mounted too low and at an angle, nearly touching my FD cage with the 54T).

[Belisarius]

Rode yesterday a Fray size 54 that a LBS fitted for me, to test. It was underwhelming on many levels, especially when riding Time ADH01 or Colnago V3Rs. SO the Carbon material is outstanding. It does not resonate, no chatter. Not Time RTM levels (whcih feels more like a Titanium), but well above most brands out there. Garmin told me that it accelerated fast on 32mm tires not an issue.

Some issues. The front, with the stock ENVE stem etc, twitchy on a level i never experienced. It was windy, but I ride on windy conditions. However, removing wind from the equation, the front Trail, handlebar combo, headset angle makes the thing want to spin and scramble eggs. Fork wide clearance also played a role, it felt as if the bike was twice the size, and I was trying to ride a fat bike with 32 mm.

Two, at cruising tempo over 30 km per hour, the BB area flexed and the Ultegra 52T gently oscillated sideways. A sublte flex that, for example, I got on my 2012 Giant TCR after 10,000 kms. I am unsure if a stiffer BB would fix that. There were some other creaks- a seatpost creak etc. Paste would fix that. Compartment box creak - so the frame is slightly twisting at pace.

BB Stifness: Fray< (Mellee?) < Aethos < S Works SL 8 < Colnago V3(4)Rs < Time ADH < Titanium. Though in some aspects the Sl-8 edges all others, this is for pure Bb area perceptible stifness.

This tells me that the Fray is meant to be used as a comfort endurance bike, not a comfortable fast road alternative to a Mellee, Cannondale System Six, Tarmac Sl-8, C-68, V4Rs, and not even the Aethos. They quoted 13,000$ and I was uncertain if it makes sense due to basic ENVE rims and that twitchy handlebar. Better wheels and a proper integrated headset (to make it more stable) add another 2,000+ $ so the Fray no longer makes sense. Not when the ADH01, disc, is stiffer, RTM carbon, and creak/chatter free.

- It also does not make sense when, for a bit more, one can order the Envee Custom. It is too bulky even if, on paper, the Fray geometry may be someone's perfect match.

So if the rider gets off from a top tier all around road bike, and hopes for a more comfortable high tempo endurance training road version, they risk being seriously dissapointed. If they buy the Fray as a solid training machine, they may also be dissapointed. If they buy it to be relaxed, go about 100-200 kms, then it is a good frame but a very pricey choice. Fall winter commute etc, If they buy it for gravel, then sure, it is ok. If the rider is over 85 Kg- expect creaks and having to fix the seatpost slipping.

If you buy it for speed (which it can deliver up to a point)- it will expose rigidity and flex issues, high speed front stability, wide clearance, tire the rider, and we are back to it not being meant for speed. A more compact Mellee is for that job. if someone suggests putting top ENVE SES rims, etc, then the cost makes no sense. Not when the Time RTM is superior, faster, more rigid yet more comfortable, costs less especially when they discount frames. And both for Time's D seatposts and new rounded seatposts, zero slippage.

I scoured the ENVE site- I could not locate Melle vs Fray BB info. I also suspect the custom (which I am considering), is also built with a stronger stifness to weight ratio.

[morrisond]

Got my Fray up an running a couple of weeks ago. The Frame is quite a lot heavier than the marketing statements, 1100g with hanger and bolts in size 58, probably around 1050g without hanger and bolts. The ride is superb though, the bike feels planted on the tarmac in a way my former BMC SLR never did, and that is using the same wheelset on both bikes.

I have one major problem however and a niggle. The problem first, my seatpost is slipping, even when torqued to 6Nm and using carbon paste (Muc off pink one), slips about 1.5 cm every hour. I might have fixed it after a lot of abuse during installation on my last attemt (pulling and pushing the seatpost, then retightening, repeat several times). I also wonder how to get the T47 BB off in an orderly fashion for service, as a T47 tool seems prone to slipping on my Rotor internal 24mm BB. If the Park tool BBR-RS really works I might just get one of them.

20240926_185332.jpg

I had the same issue on the seatpost slipping. I crazy glued some sand paper to the aluminum wedge and no problems now. I don't need crazy torque now either and i'm over 100kg's.

[thomiz]

I had the same issue on the seatpost slipping. I crazy glued some sand paper to the aluminum wedge and no problems now. I don't need crazy torque now either and i'm over 100kg's.

Do you have a picture of that? Seems interesting and not to cumbersome solution. I did notice that the seatpost wedge felt very slippery on touch. (My BMC SLR did also have seatpost slipping/sound issues, my Factor LS had major seatpost noise issues until I got a new Enve seatpost. So I am not sold on the current seatpost wedge solutions, I have never used one without some kind of issue).

[thomiz]

Some issues. The front, with the stock ENVE stem etc, twitchy on a level i never experienced. It was windy, but I ride on windy conditions. However, removing wind from the equation, the front Trail, handlebar combo, headset angle makes the thing want to spin and scramble eggs. Fork wide clearance also played a role, it felt as if the bike was twice the size, and I was trying to ride a fat bike with 32 mm.

Two, at cruising tempo over 30 km per hour, the BB area flexed and the Ultegra 52T gently oscillated sideways. A sublte flex that, for example, I got on my 2012 Giant TCR after 10,000 kms. I am unsure if a stiffer BB would fix that. There were some other creaks- a seatpost creak etc. Paste would fix that. Compartment box creak - so the frame is slightly twisting at pace.

These problems seems strange to me. I have not experienced it as twitchy at all, compared to my late BMC SLR much more stable at speed. Compared to my Factor LS much more stable. When getting up to speed (going downhill) feels planted and stable at least up to 65 km/h I think that was my higest speed last weekend.

I do not feel any problem with stiffnes either, at least up to the level of my BMC, maybe a little more soft than the Factor.

[morrisond]

I had the same issue on the seatpost slipping. I crazy glued some sand paper to the aluminum wedge and no problems now. I don't need crazy torque now either and i'm over 100kg's.

Do you have a picture of that? Seems interesting and not to cumbersome solution. I did notice that the seatpost wedge felt very slippery on touch. (My BMC SLR did also have seatpost slipping/sound issues, my Factor LS had major seatpost noise issues until I got a new Enve seatpost. So I am not sold on the current seatpost wedge solutions, I have never used one without some kind of issue).

Sorry - no pictures - I tried scuffing it up a bit at first but it didn't work - I just covered the surface of the wedge (mainly the inside curve - not all the way around) that contacts the post with about 100 grit sandpaper and crazy glued it - worked well. The shape of the wedge didn't seem to match up too well with the post as there was a gap at the narrowest part - the sandpaper filled that in.

[thomiz]

Sorry - no pictures - I tried scuffing it up a bit at first but it didn't work - I just covered the surface of the wedge (mainly the inside curve - not all the way around) that contacts the post with about 100 grit sandpaper and crazy glued it - worked well. The shape of the wedge didn't seem to match up too well with the post as there was a gap at the narrowest part - the sandpaper filled that in.

Thank you, seems like it could be Worth a shot

[morrisond]

Sorry - no pictures - I tried scuffing it up a bit at first but it didn't work - I just covered the surface of the wedge (mainly the inside curve - not all the way around) that contacts the post with about 100 grit sandpaper and crazy glued it - worked well. The shape of the wedge didn't seem to match up too well with the post as there was a gap at the narrowest part - the sandpaper filled that in.

Thank you, seems like it could be Worth a shot

Yes it has been working fine. Worse case is you wreck a Seatpost - a lot better than a Frame.

[EtoDemerzel]

Hi - Campy follows the Shimano standard. Sorry the bike is in my shop and not going there today. I spray painted the Silca Hanger with Flat Black BBQ paint (very durable it stuck great - in retrospect might have used glossy but the finish might not have been so good). Follow the Campy instructions for removing the screw - you have to change the direction of the Chain gap screw.

This is the best picture I have - if you zoom in you can see it.

Such a nice color. Actually all the Fray colors look pretty great. Did it come with the matching stem?
Enve did such a great job with the geo on this bike. Ride is great even though it's too tall for me.

I didn't realize they had direct mount hangers avail for Enves. Would be nice to see more aftermarket support.

[morrisond]

Thanks - I had the one piece bar painted by Velocolour.

It's UDH on the Fray - many will work.

[jayjay]

Regarding the recent headset bearing topic.

Ceramicspeed does not reccomend using their 40x52x7mm bearing for the Enve frames but mentiones to maybe add some spacer between the compression ring and top cap.

Enve says:

I terms of the recesses in the headset bearings, I've had no reports from consumers on our end with that issue of increased friction from the headset cover when using any aftermarket IS52/52 (40x52x7) bearings. We have folks at ENVE HQ running ceramic speed bearings on their ENVE frames with no complaints or issues that I am aware of.

The actual bearing OD is 51.8. However, the 52mm bearing from Ceramic speed should fit in our head tube, it'll just create a snugger fit.

The bearing is still listed as a 40x52x7 from Token, which is why ENVE listed it as such. Its actual measured OD is 51.8. The information listed on our support site is there to allow folks to purchase replacement bearings, all of which would be listed in whole mm measurements and not to the tenth. To avoid confusion, we provide measurements that other headset manufacturers typically list, which are to the whole mm or in this case, 52mm. Preload on the headset and the upper compression ring account for these slight differences in tenths of a mm by compressing the headset and bearings and removing any play. At the end of the day, our head tube is designed around an IS52 bearing, and replacing the headset bearings in the future with other brands that offer 40x52x7 bearings should be no issue.

So, the big question, use the CeramicSpeed SLT bearings or not?

[pmprego]

Some issues. The front, with the stock ENVE stem etc, twitchy on a level i never experienced. It was windy, but I ride on windy conditions. However, removing wind from the equation, the front Trail, handlebar combo, headset angle makes the thing want to spin and scramble eggs. Fork wide clearance also played a role, it felt as if the bike was twice the size, and I was trying to ride a fat bike with 32 mm.

Two, at cruising tempo over 30 km per hour, the BB area flexed and the Ultegra 52T gently oscillated sideways. A sublte flex that, for example, I got on my 2012 Giant TCR after 10,000 kms. I am unsure if a stiffer BB would fix that. There were some other creaks- a seatpost creak etc. Paste would fix that. Compartment box creak - so the frame is slightly twisting at pace.

These problems seems strange to me. I have not experienced it as twitchy at all, compared to my late BMC SLR much more stable at speed. Compared to my Factor LS much more stable. When getting up to speed (going downhill) feels planted and stable at least up to 65 km/h I think that was my higest speed last weekend.

I do not feel any problem with stiffnes either, at least up to the level of my BMC, maybe a little more soft than the Factor.

This is the first negative review I've ever read. Very much focused on the time bikes...