Budget-ish Metal Disc Frame Options?

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morrisond
Posts: 1325
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

raggedtrousers wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:50 am
That's really helpful, thank you. I tested a Resolution at Mason's HQ, and enjoyed it, but thought it lacked a touch of snap (and I note that cycling tips weighed in the frame only, in a 52, at ~2.2kg, which perhaps explains it). I'm a huge fan of my Bokeh (same alloy as the Definition iirc, and quite similar geo) for gravel and audax, though it's on the firm side at times.

I'll look at the Strael again.

That said, if your Definition is a 52 by any chance, I could possibly be interested!
I've suggested to Fairlight that they do a Strael R - without the fender and rack mounts, electronic only and rear hydro hose internal.

I think it would sell a Ton - anyone else?

by Weenie


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CampagYOLO
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

morrisond wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:25 pm
raggedtrousers wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:50 am
That's really helpful, thank you. I tested a Resolution at Mason's HQ, and enjoyed it, but thought it lacked a touch of snap (and I note that cycling tips weighed in the frame only, in a 52, at ~2.2kg, which perhaps explains it). I'm a huge fan of my Bokeh (same alloy as the Definition iirc, and quite similar geo) for gravel and audax, though it's on the firm side at times.

I'll look at the Strael again.

That said, if your Definition is a 52 by any chance, I could possibly be interested!
I've suggested to Fairlight that they do a Strael R - without the fender and rack mounts, electronic only and rear hydro hose internal.

I think it would sell a Ton - anyone else?
I dunno, the Strael is all about being the perfect 4 season UK bike to me.

I quite like your Strael R idea but actually a rim brake one would be more tempting to me, Shimano and SRAM both make electric cable shifters.

That way you could have a lighter frame and braking system that could mean that you wouldn't be giving up much weight to modern carbon disc brake bikes.

I'm fully aware that the chances of this happening are nil as it wouldn't sell at all!

morrisond
Posts: 1325
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

CampagYOLO wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:34 pm
morrisond wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:25 pm
raggedtrousers wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:50 am
That's really helpful, thank you. I tested a Resolution at Mason's HQ, and enjoyed it, but thought it lacked a touch of snap (and I note that cycling tips weighed in the frame only, in a 52, at ~2.2kg, which perhaps explains it). I'm a huge fan of my Bokeh (same alloy as the Definition iirc, and quite similar geo) for gravel and audax, though it's on the firm side at times.

I'll look at the Strael again.

That said, if your Definition is a 52 by any chance, I could possibly be interested!
I've suggested to Fairlight that they do a Strael R - without the fender and rack mounts, electronic only and rear hydro hose internal.

I think it would sell a Ton - anyone else?
I dunno, the Strael is all about being the perfect 4 season UK bike to me.

I quite like your Strael R idea but actually a rim brake one would be more tempting to me, Shimano and SRAM both make electric cable shifters.

That way you could have a lighter frame and braking system that could mean that you wouldn't be giving up much weight to modern carbon disc brake bikes.

I'm fully aware that the chances of this happening are nil as it wouldn't sell at all!
I like the idea.

I see the Streal as almost the pinnacle of Steel bikes these days. Rim or Disc it deserves a really lightweight fork and as much weight taken out of it as possible. Maybe even shorten the CS's for 30mm max tire and no fenders.

apr46
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

14sandee wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:14 pm
Hi all,
Resurrecting my long-lost WW account to ask a slightly un-weenie question. I am, put simply, bored of my current 2018 Emonda SLR6 Disc and want to swap it for something metallic. I'm planning to sell the frame and keep my current wheels/mechanical Ultegra hydraulic disc gruppo/finishing kit. Ideally I'd like:
  • Not too heavy - obviously will be far more than my Trek but I don't want an 11kg bike.
  • Fairly inexpensive - certaily sub 2000GBP as am a student and as always, money is not that freely available.
  • Flat mount disc brake.
  • Internal cabling.
  • Thru Axles.
  • Preferably steel (including stainless) or titanium.
  • Traditional (flat top tube) looks - the Standert Triebwerk is pretty perfect.
  • Relatively racy - I'll be keeping my Crockett do-it-all bike for off-road, winter, etc, so this will be my fast road bike. That said, if I can find an option that will take 650b*47mm tyres for gravel, be nimble enoigh for CX, and still be fast on the road I may consider swapping both bikes for one.
  • Clearance for at least 28mm tyres.
  • Ideally either a cool paintjob or a bare metal finish - doesn't have to be complicated, again see the Standert in that gorgeous metallic green.
  • Threded BB - non-negotiable!
  • Not a Planet X or any of their sister brands - I'm just really not a fan...
I will consider aluminium but I'd much rather the other options. I also don't really want something with rack and guard mounts, unless they're very discrete - for example, the Mason Resolution looks like an excellent bike but isn't what I want.
Currently I'm thinking the aformentioned Standert Triebwerk CR might be my best option, but their availibilty is erratic, I'd have to import it to the UK, and I've just missed the last 54cm frame in green >:(
I would also consider a custom frame - I've heard some mentions of XACD and Waltly as a "buy direct from the manufacturer" option? Are there any independent framebuilders who can build a steel frame for a relatively low cost?

SO. What else is out there that I've missed/simply not heard of?
If you want to go the Waltly / XACD route, i recently did that within the last 12 months and XACD can build you a pretty nice bike with high end features for that budget, but you really do need put in a lot of work to make sure its right. Happy to guide you through that process.

I am not aware of any Asian factory type steel builders that would be open to make a single frame right now. One UK based option that hasnt been mentioned yet is Stayer. Their "Crit Bike" seems really interesting.

Edit: never mind the Stayer isnt in budget.

wilwil
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Nohands83 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:43 pm
Condor Super Acciaio is steel with really racy geo, a mate has one and really rates it - lovely finish as well. Condor also do the Italia RC which is very similar but alloy.

FYI I've got a Mason Definition which I use as a winter trainer and commuter, and it's superb for that purpose but I wouldn't want it as my 'fast' bike.
I have friends with Super Accaios and they love them. Good price too. I think they are made in Italy.


DHG01
Posts: 715
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

I ride a Triebwerk - and it's a great bike. I also ride a Ritchey Logic - fabulous ride. Perhaps a bit sweeter but a bit less agile than the Triebwerk ( :smartass: whatever than means...).

The Ritchey is lighter, by quite a bit. Not just the frame and lack of seat post clamp, but the CK headset and bottom bracket from the Triebwerk do add grams.

I guess the challenge is the internal routing.

With £2000 you should have custom options available.

Finally, haven't checked for a while, but Genesis and Gunnar used to offer good stuff.

DHG01
Posts: 715
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

I haven't ridden, but the All City looks really good.

CampagYOLO
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

DHG01 wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:29 pm
I haven't ridden, but the All City looks really good.
I have a Zig Zag, it's a lovely bike to ride but I wouldn't say it's particularly racy. Also all the cables are external including the fork which is dumb.

It's my cruiser/winter bike so I'm very happy with it but it seems like the OP wants something more aggressive to ride.

alwaystimetotorque
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:25 pm

by alwaystimetotorque

Going back to the original post - if you're considering a Standert Triebwerk ( i assume you meant the disc version and not the CR) then you'll be forking out nearly £2300 by the time you add shipping on. You're not far off the price of a Laverack R Jack f&f at that point and that's what I'd consider. Granted once you start adding that lush glass bead finish the price will rise!

I'd looked at the Standert Erdgeschloss and the Triebwork on a number of occasions but after the whole Brexit thing the cost just became a massive barrier for me as the likes of Fairlight and Condor have equally as good and more likely better offerings for half the price and you don't generally have the availability issues.

I think you're going to really struggle to stick to your £2k budget for a custom frame that has internal cable routing - there are certainly frame builders that will do it but how much it costs will depend on what you actually want and equally how long you are prepared to wait for it. Prepping/brazing/finishing the cable ports is very time consuming and therefore costs.

I'd go and get a quote from Rourke based on your requirements and then go from there. Until you get a quote from a bespoke builder then you're not going to know whether it's out of range based on your budget and from there you may realise that you have to concede on one or more of your criteria and get an off-the-peg frame.

It will be good to know how you progress with this and see what you end up. Good luck.

14sandee
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:35 pm
Location: North Yorkshire, Land of Steep Bergs

by 14sandee

Thanks for all the replies, and apologies I can't respond to them all. I still like the idea of custom and so may look into that longer-term, but for the moment I've had the opportunity to buy a second-hand Zig-Zag for a frankly ridiculous price - I reckon I'll ride that for a bit and see if I'm still as enthusiastic about steel, and then look into upgrades later.

It doesn't fit all my criteria but it's cheap and as a student that's the most important factor! On that note my Emondá SLR disc frame is up for sale, in case anyone is interested...
All-City Zig-Zag / Custom Trinity / Crockett / 2014 TCR / Tom Bromwich Singlespeed / Kinesis "Kermit" Pro6

rwoofer
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:24 pm

by rwoofer

Another vote for a Strael. I have a Strael 3 and enjoy riding it just as much as my SS Evo HM and Cervelo R3 - just a different kind of ride.

14sandee
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:35 pm
Location: North Yorkshire, Land of Steep Bergs

by 14sandee

To anyone interested, here's the thread for what I ended up with:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=172376
All-City Zig-Zag / Custom Trinity / Crockett / 2014 TCR / Tom Bromwich Singlespeed / Kinesis "Kermit" Pro6

MarkusBo
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:57 pm

by MarkusBo

Ritchey Road Logic! Best bike I've ever had. It goes downhill like a demon. Seriously its handling put my BMC's to shame and they're great handling bikes to begin with. Its fun both when riding calmly and at maximum attack and has a really nice ride quality as already mentioned in this thread. My average speed went up when going from my cf bikes to this one. Not because its lighter or has better powertransfer which it obviously hasn't but because its so damm enjoyable to go out and ride on. It makes me want to go out and ride more often and harder. It has external cable routing but honestly it doesnt look offensive at all. I also prefer internal cable routing but the external one on the road logic is executed really well.

by Weenie


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Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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Roaringwaffle
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:04 pm

by Roaringwaffle

Hijacking this threat as I am looking for something somewhat similar. I currently own a standert pfadfinder which I use for everything. I also have an old cervelo S2 but I don't use it anymore as it is showing its age and the rim brakes on carbon wheels don't inspire confidence. I am looking for another super fast bike and I am considering alloy as well as carbon as I am trying to remain below £4500. My current carbon choices are mostly the cannondale supersix and Rose xlite. For alloy, I find the oversized headtube of the kreissage quite weird and I find the condor italia RC, trek ALR and spoons sestriere to be much nicer, however I am not sure they are agressive enough for what I want.

I mainly do club rides, the occasional crit where I am within the last 3-4 people and triathlons/duathlons. I want a snappy bike that holds speed well, but I realise it is maybe not possible with alloy ....

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