*NEW GEN* SRAM Force Groupset March 2023
Moderator: robbosmans
It seems the availability of some Force level components is getting worse daily. The Force AXS RD's are still available, but Force AXS XPLR RD is very hard to find and the delivery time is several months now. The Rival AXS XPLR RD availability is better.
Main thing I'm hoping for is a redesign of the derailleurs so that they can accommodate the XPLR (or any 40-44T cassette) in 2x config. If they don't, since it seems such a setup will probably not work with GRX 12s, I'll otherwise have to stick to GRX 11s for the forseeable. I'd really like to move to SRAM wireless on the gravel bike though.
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I might be building my first SRAM AXS bike. Given what I've read in this thread, I am wondering how I could build the “best performance for buck” AXS groupset, which I am envisioning to be a mix of Rival and Force for the most part, with potentially some Red and/or third party components.
Before I go further, by “performance” I mean anything that could improve reliability, quality, durability and general product performance (e.g. shift quality). I do not care about weight and I am not prepared to pay for that alone.
How would you build the “best performing” SRAM AXS without spending too much?
Chainrings: my impression is that it may be worth going for current Force due to better quality vs Rival and compatibility with spider-based PM. I see no reason to wait for the upcoming new gen Force, or?
Levers: I think Rival wins here as it has the smaller form factor, or alternatively wait for new Force levers but they're unlikely to be widely available for a while I assume.
Brakes: no idea whether there’s a winner here. Is the new gen Force likely to carry improvements?
Rotors: again, no idea whether there’s merit in splurging for top range rotors or even third party ones work well with SRAM brakes.
Rear Derailleur: here I am thinking current Force may be best as it has the Orbit clutch, but again I don’t know whether it’s worth the splurge vs current Rival. I don't see any reason to wait for new gen here.
Front Derailleur: no idea, but here I think there’s no merit in going for Force (either current or new), so Rival? Unless the new gen is likely to bring some improvements on chain drops..
Cassettes: Whilst I don’t care much about weight, the Rival cassette is a bit of a porker. I'm assuming that splurging for Force cassettes is a good thing.
Chain: any insight on the fastest flat top chain that doesn’t break the bank? I think I read on Friction Facts that the Force chain was faster than Red, but is there any better alternative?
Before I go further, by “performance” I mean anything that could improve reliability, quality, durability and general product performance (e.g. shift quality). I do not care about weight and I am not prepared to pay for that alone.
How would you build the “best performing” SRAM AXS without spending too much?
Chainrings: my impression is that it may be worth going for current Force due to better quality vs Rival and compatibility with spider-based PM. I see no reason to wait for the upcoming new gen Force, or?
Levers: I think Rival wins here as it has the smaller form factor, or alternatively wait for new Force levers but they're unlikely to be widely available for a while I assume.
Brakes: no idea whether there’s a winner here. Is the new gen Force likely to carry improvements?
Rotors: again, no idea whether there’s merit in splurging for top range rotors or even third party ones work well with SRAM brakes.
Rear Derailleur: here I am thinking current Force may be best as it has the Orbit clutch, but again I don’t know whether it’s worth the splurge vs current Rival. I don't see any reason to wait for new gen here.
Front Derailleur: no idea, but here I think there’s no merit in going for Force (either current or new), so Rival? Unless the new gen is likely to bring some improvements on chain drops..
Cassettes: Whilst I don’t care much about weight, the Rival cassette is a bit of a porker. I'm assuming that splurging for Force cassettes is a good thing.
Chain: any insight on the fastest flat top chain that doesn’t break the bank? I think I read on Friction Facts that the Force chain was faster than Red, but is there any better alternative?
This right here. The most important will be the Red crankset for weight and casette choice. If you're sticking with regular casette sizes, the red casette is worth the weight savings as well imo.
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The issue with building a SRAM drivetrain a la carte is it will almost never be cheaper than buying the “upgrade kit” of RD/FD/levers/calipers/rotors together. It’s a meaningless exercise unless you really want the Rival grip shape.
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Another reason to have a Red cassette over a Force one is that some people have reported that the Force cassette can be noisy and they have difficulty making it run quietly.
This is not an issue with the Red one.
This is not an issue with the Red one.
Thanks all - any reason other than weight to go for Red crankset over Force?
@Tobin - I am planning to shop around and hunt for discounts - I have specific taste & needs which often don't agree with the various upgrade kits (e.g. when I had a cursory look, I could only see them being sold with the short cage RD, and I'd like to fit a 10-36t cassette. I don't know if I want a 160mm rear rotor, etc).
@Tobin - I am planning to shop around and hunt for discounts - I have specific taste & needs which often don't agree with the various upgrade kits (e.g. when I had a cursory look, I could only see them being sold with the short cage RD, and I'd like to fit a 10-36t cassette. I don't know if I want a 160mm rear rotor, etc).
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That's true WRT to the 36t RD, forgot about that. Though in reality the cage is the same length and the only difference is the b-knuckle length. In my case, Pilo makes a longer derailleur hanger for Trek bikes that provides the additional clearance.robeambro wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:56 pmThanks all - any reason other than weight to go for Red crankset over Force?
@Tobin - I am planning to shop around and hunt for discounts - I have specific taste & needs which often don't agree with the various upgrade kits (e.g. when I had a cursory look, I could only see them being sold with the short cage RD, and I'd like to fit a 10-36t cassette. I don't know if I want a 160mm rear rotor, etc).
Red crank looks better than Force IMO. I've also run the 36t cassette with the Red RD without issue, but I'd say the Rival derailleurs are the best vfm as the individual replacement cost is much lower and the shifting performance is as good as Red or Force IME. I don't notice the clutch at all.robeambro wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:56 pmThanks all - any reason other than weight to go for Red crankset over Force?
@Tobin - I am planning to shop around and hunt for discounts - I have specific taste & needs which often don't agree with the various upgrade kits (e.g. when I had a cursory look, I could only see them being sold with the short cage RD, and I'd like to fit a 10-36t cassette. I don't know if I want a 160mm rear rotor, etc).
- robbosmans
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Looks like a mix of Dura ace and grx shifters
- MrCurrieinahurry
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Yes probablyRNAV wrote:JFC how can you possibly get more high-end? A groupset is already ~$3k. What's next? $5k for a group?
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Formerly known as Curryinahurry
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Wait a few years and buy Red AXS for US$1600 or Force AXS for US$1000 like I did. No reason to live on the cutting edge right now when the old stuff is just fine.