Campag 12sp cassette - crap quality or counterfeit?

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Leon
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:10 am
Location: On the road

by Leon

Guess you are right. But what I'm more interested in is the excessive wear of the cassette in 1000km.... I would be very interested in Campy's answer to that. Since we all have SR cassettes with much more miles which hardly show any wear.
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mrfox
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:18 pm

by mrfox

Thanks to everyone who responded and posted pictures.

I reached out to Campagnolo, and per them it's unlike that I fell victim to a fake (sent them pics of the traceability sticker).

I did some experimentation regarding the fit issue. The SR 12 cassette in question fits snugly, but without problems, onto a DT 240 hub (i.e. no excessive force and no scratching of the freehub). OTOH, a 11s Chorus cassette fits onto the Carbon-Ti hub very snugly, but without needing as much force or gauging the hub (any more, at least...). Without knowing the nominal dimensions and tolerances of Campy, it's hard to say which part is out of spec - for all I know it could be both, and I'll be contacting Carbon-Ti as well.

After seeing the pictures of cassettes with far higher mileage in this thread, I don't think the wear on my cassette is normal. I suspect something with the coating went wrong, especially on the 17-19-22 block which looks far worse than the rest of the cassette. Campag has hinted at the possibility of a warranty replacement.

I'm not too thrilled all of this is happening on a bike that cost me more than most people would spend on a used car...

mrfox
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:18 pm

by mrfox

Not making much progress with either Campy or Carbon-Ti...

I take it I'd have a valid claim with Campy if the cassette was indeed outside their specs and tolerances - which they won't tell me.
Leon wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:06 pm
what I'm more interested in is the excessive wear of the cassette in 1000km.... I would be very interested in Campy's answer to that.
Their answer is, more or less, "shit happens":
Per our warranty policy, finish is not covered.
[...]
I don’t think that it is normal. However, things can be a bit outside normal, and still not quite qualify for replacement.
Bit ironic, as the finish in question is the "surface treatment which guarantees a longer life span", per their marketing.


Meanwhile Carbon-Ti emailed me back that this has "never occurred". They say I can send the hub back for evaluation.


So, basically, I can send off the cassette to somewhere in the USA, and the hub to somewhere in Italy - hoping that I'll eventually get them back, and which no certainty that the issues will even be fixed. Not particularly appealing given that all my other wheelsets are 11s and rim brake, so I'd have to either pony up for another cassette and freehub body, or mothball this bike for weeks or months.

At the end of the day, the damage is mostly cosmetic, so I guess I'll live with it. What bugs me about this is that this is happening with supposedly top-tier, obscenely priced components. Honestly, at this price point, I expect perfection, and that's not what I got.

Maybe I should just write the parts off and send them to Hambini for a good reaming...

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 1395
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

If you are not going to send back the cassette there is a possibility of fixing the issue yourself. This is just a suggestion but if it were me in this situation I would take a known cassette and see how it slides on the freehub and if it goes on proper then take a die grinder or dremel and carefully grind off the areas that are scrubbing hard on the freehub. If its the freehub thats out of tolerance then grind the surface area thats scrubbing. From all the comments and the pic you provided it appears that its the freehub more out of tolerance.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
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mrfox
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:18 pm

by mrfox

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:47 am
take a die grinder or dremel and carefully grind off the areas that are scrubbing hard on the freehub. If its the freehub thats out of tolerance then grind the surface area thats scrubbing.
Yeah, I may end up fixing it myself as suggested. But I shouldn't need a dremel to make a $5000 groupset work with a $500 hub :evil:

For the freehub that also means the anodizing gets removed, which I guess increases the risk of corrosion and premature failure.

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 1395
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

The freehub already has surfaced removed from the interference fit so not a big loss if you clean it up in those spots. Yeah I agree you shouldnt have to do any serious mods on expensive parts such as these but I have done it many times before as well when in the same situation as you. PITA to send it back and be without for an unspecified amount of time not knowing if they will or will not do anything about it. Most times if I can I will fix the problem as its less hassle then dealing with bike shops or manufacturers. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2019 Colnago V2R Disc Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

Leon
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:10 am
Location: On the road

by Leon

mrfox wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:28 am
Not making much progress with either Campy or Carbon-Ti...

I take it I'd have a valid claim with Campy if the cassette was indeed outside their specs and tolerances - which they won't tell me.
Leon wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:06 pm
what I'm more interested in is the excessive wear of the cassette in 1000km.... I would be very interested in Campy's answer to that.
Their answer is, more or less, "shit happens":
Per our warranty policy, finish is not covered.
[...]
I don’t think that it is normal. However, things can be a bit outside normal, and still not quite qualify for replacement.
That is a shitty response from Campy. What would it cost them to send you a new cassette on the condition you send them the current one? You will be happy, you will talk postive about them here. Seems like they are afraid to create a precedent.
Ride bikes, not tanks!

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1924
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

As a mechanic, there is right or wrong. Feelings rarely fit into the equation.

Why would Campagnolo admit to a fault where there is none? I get there are people wrongly imprisoned, but rarely does a person, let alone a company, admit to a failure that is not their fault. I think it is wrong to give away stuff so you just go away. Most companies have a goodwill budget but you need to ask yourself, why should they use it on you?

The problem with the bike industry is that there are so many different manufacturers that it's hard to say what will fit and what will not. If you used an all Campagnolo set up, then maybe Campagnolo should get involved a bit more. Sadly, you did not. So if the cassette does not fit, I can assure you, it's the cassette or freehub. Sounds like both companies are saying it's not their fault. I do not know any company that would not do that.

Whenever I pick and choose parts for any of my builds, I always accept some type of responsibility for making things work. This seems to be lacking here.

No, I'm not trying to pick on you but if you purchased a bike off the rack, then you could go to the manufacturer and ask them to fix it. I have never purchased a bike for myself that way and I take all the blame if I need to massage the parts to work together.

It seems that you have a cassette that is peeling that nobody has seen. I think the odds are good that you can buy another one, you'll get one that does not peel. Sure, you will have to buy a cassette at some point of time. It's sad, you did not get the average life out of the one you got. Sometimes life does not go your way.

rudye9mr
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

- what has the chain wear been like for the cassette - have you measured with a vernier?

I believe somewhere in the documentation of the cassette - there are tolerances or at least on campy's site - perhaps you can check a new cassette vs current one as well as the freehub specs with a vernier and compare to a campy freehub spec?

mrfox
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:18 pm

by mrfox

Butcher wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:49 pm
there are so many different manufacturers that it's hard to say what will fit and what will not.
That's why standards exist.
Butcher wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:49 pm
Whenever I pick and choose parts for any of my builds, I always accept some type of responsibility for making things work
I'd perhaps agree if these were cheap no-name parts scored off ebay.

But we're talking about top-tier parts from high-end brands here. At the stratospheric prices they're charging us, is it asking too much that decent manufacturing tolerances and quality control are maintained?

Other industries can do this. I don't see why the bike industry can't.

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

Because they arent regulated like many other industries (except where safety is involved).

And even in regards to safety, the volume of recalls from many big name brands of late, suggest they don't feel compelled.

And we the consumer ought to start voting with our wallets or it aint gonna change.

gorkypl
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:31 am
Location: Poland

by gorkypl

robertbb wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:10 am
And we the consumer ought to start voting with our wallets or it aint gonna change.
This. As long as there is market for out-of-spec bike frames costing 5-10k EUR/USD manufacturers will not give a shit.

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Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1924
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

I have worked in the automotive industry for 40 years and to this date, the only parts that fit right the first time are OEM parts.

Standards or not, the more manufacturers that are involved [top tier or not] the worst it gets. Try and get those two manufacturers working together for your project. Good luck it's not going to happen.

Again, all my builds are not stock. I just believe that once you start throwing on different manufactured parts, you need to 'massage' these parts to play together. Trying to find the root cause and getting all the manufacturers to help you out, is wishful thinking. Better to spend your time to figure it out yourself. Be prepared to ruin a few parts along the way.

dalord774
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:52 pm

by dalord774

Short question about the lifespan of your 12s cassettes!

How many kilometers do your SR cassettes run on average?

Sincerely, Stefan
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Colnago Master / 8,7 kg
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dalord774
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:52 pm

by dalord774

Short question about the lifespan of your 12s cassettes!

How many kilometers do your SR cassettes run on average?

Sincerely, Stefan
Look 695 / 6,5 Kg
Colnago Master / 8,7 kg
Baum Ristretto / 7,6 Kg

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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