Giant Propel 2023

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bedampft
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:04 pm

by bedampft

HBike wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:45 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:42 pm
I think the issue with bikes like the new Propel is their aero performance only holds up if they are used with the original bar/ stem/wheels/*tyres*.

So this is how Giant expects to supply the product. Frameset sales are very much an afterthought. This is the present and future of aero bikes.
spartan wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:07 am
any pics of built up bikes. giant canada sucks. they should have sold framesets if they still have issues src parts.
It is not simply possible to update certain parts. The steerer tube is now d-shaped in addition to being 1 1/4" -> you need to use the two new stems designed for the propel, no other options exist.
Seatposts similarly.

I find the Propel intriguing. But in Germany only the top model and the Rival builds are sold, no Ultegra or Force. I would need to drive to the Netherlands.
So far I didn't find enough reports to judge riding comfort etc., too.
theres also the Advanced 2 with mechanical 105.

btw, weight for a stock Advanced 2 is 9,07kg in size M (without pedals). 1/3 of it is tires, rotors, CS-R7100 and the PA 2 wheels= 3535g

Some pics i found:
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by Weenie


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Cattiy
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:08 pm

by Cattiy

bedampft wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:36 pm
HBike wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:45 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:42 pm
I think the issue with bikes like the new Propel is their aero performance only holds up if they are used with the original bar/ stem/wheels/*tyres*.

So this is how Giant expects to supply the product. Frameset sales are very much an afterthought. This is the present and future of aero bikes.
spartan wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:07 am
any pics of built up bikes. giant canada sucks. they should have sold framesets if they still have issues src parts.
It is not simply possible to update certain parts. The steerer tube is now d-shaped in addition to being 1 1/4" -> you need to use the two new stems designed for the propel, no other options exist.
Seatposts similarly.

I find the Propel intriguing. But in Germany only the top model and the Rival builds are sold, no Ultegra or Force. I would need to drive to the Netherlands.
So far I didn't find enough reports to judge riding comfort etc., too.
theres also the Advanced 2 with mechanical 105.

btw, weight for a stock Advanced 2 is 9,07kg in size M (without pedals). 1/3 of it is tires, rotors, CS-R7100 and the PA 2 wheels= 3535g

Some pics i found:
Where is all the weigh?! My 45 mm carbon wheelset on DT Swiss 240 XP hubs, Ultegra 11-30 CS, Campagnolo Rotors and Conti 5000 TL weighs 2500g. That would bring the the bike down to 8,5 kg. And there is not much weight that could be reduced down from here. The Giant Fleet SL saddle is reasonable light an 210g. Only the stem and the handlebar are leftover.

An Aeroad CF SL 7 Disc weighs 7,95 kg with deeper wheels!

uppis
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:05 am

by uppis

HBike wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:22 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:26 pm
HBike wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:45 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:42 pm
I think the issue with bikes like the new Propel is their aero performance only holds up if they are used with the original bar/ stem/wheels/*tyres*.

So this is how Giant expects to supply the product. Frameset sales are very much an afterthought. This is the present and future of aero bikes.

It is not simply possible to update certain parts. The steerer tube is now d-shaped in addition to being 1 1/4" -> you need to use the two new stems designed for the propel, no other options exist.
Seatposts similarly.

I find the Propel intriguing. But in Germany only the top model and the Rival builds are sold, no Ultegra or Force. I would need to drive to the Netherlands.
So far I didn't find enough reports to judge riding comfort etc., too.
I bought an earlier Propel Advanced SL as frameset and that was fine, as the bike is pretty standard apart from the od2 steerer and v-brakes.

Many of the new bikes can only used with proprietary components, so a frameset purchase makes much less sense. You can't just swap over the stuff from your old bike. You're restricted to groupset, a new seat and perhaps wheels, but in many cases the wheels may not be as good for aero as the standard ones.

I'm allergic to hookless, so the new Propel is a no-no for me. Giant saying using Cadex tyres is necessary for optimum aero just reinforces this.
I use hookless rims with inner tubes (Aerothan), works fine so far. I think the new SL R 50 wheels are quite good and great value- 30mm outer diameter, 126,5kg system weight, rigorous testing protokoll, so 25 to 28mm tires are fine. Are there affordable alternatives to the 303 Firecrest or these SL R 50 with >30mm outer diameter?
Light Bicycle WR50? 25mm ID, 32mm OD, can choose hooked or hookless. Have been training and racing both road and gravel with WR50, no complaints.

Nickldn
Posts: 1865
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

uppis wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:42 pm
HBike wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:22 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:26 pm
HBike wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:45 pm


It is not simply possible to update certain parts. The steerer tube is now d-shaped in addition to being 1 1/4" -> you need to use the two new stems designed for the propel, no other options exist.
Seatposts similarly.

I find the Propel intriguing. But in Germany only the top model and the Rival builds are sold, no Ultegra or Force. I would need to drive to the Netherlands.
So far I didn't find enough reports to judge riding comfort etc., too.
I bought an earlier Propel Advanced SL as frameset and that was fine, as the bike is pretty standard apart from the od2 steerer and v-brakes.

Many of the new bikes can only used with proprietary components, so a frameset purchase makes much less sense. You can't just swap over the stuff from your old bike. You're restricted to groupset, a new seat and perhaps wheels, but in many cases the wheels may not be as good for aero as the standard ones.

I'm allergic to hookless, so the new Propel is a no-no for me. Giant saying using Cadex tyres is necessary for optimum aero just reinforces this.
I use hookless rims with inner tubes (Aerothan), works fine so far. I think the new SL R 50 wheels are quite good and great value- 30mm outer diameter, 126,5kg system weight, rigorous testing protokoll, so 25 to 28mm tires are fine. Are there affordable alternatives to the 303 Firecrest or these SL R 50 with >30mm outer diameter?
Light Bicycle WR50? 25mm ID, 32mm OD, can choose hooked or hookless. Have been training and racing both road and gravel with WR50, no complaints.
Sure WR50s are good rims, but the fact remains that 25mm ID and 32mm OD is not necessarily beneficial for racing wheels running 25mm tyres.

It IS beneficial for HOOKLESS rims, which NEED the extra width to make running the 72psi maximum tyre pressure workable with 25mm tyres. Wider ID makes it possible to run low pressures, especially for riders heavier than 70kg. For rims with a narrower ID 85-90psi may be the right pressure.

On the other hand running HOOKED rims and 25mm tyres means 19mm ID and 27mm OD is sufficient for some, but not all 25mm tyres.

What is more aero? Hard to say, but most racers will not run 32mm OD rims for 25mm tyres.

So as far as I can see the Propel has light hookless wheels, which need to be wider and so less areo than required.

The big question is if TOUR test the new Propel with Cadex and Zipp wheels, which ones will be more aero?
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

uppis
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:05 am

by uppis

Nickldn wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:55 pm
uppis wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:42 pm
HBike wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:22 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:26 pm


I bought an earlier Propel Advanced SL as frameset and that was fine, as the bike is pretty standard apart from the od2 steerer and v-brakes.

Many of the new bikes can only used with proprietary components, so a frameset purchase makes much less sense. You can't just swap over the stuff from your old bike. You're restricted to groupset, a new seat and perhaps wheels, but in many cases the wheels may not be as good for aero as the standard ones.

I'm allergic to hookless, so the new Propel is a no-no for me. Giant saying using Cadex tyres is necessary for optimum aero just reinforces this.
I use hookless rims with inner tubes (Aerothan), works fine so far. I think the new SL R 50 wheels are quite good and great value- 30mm outer diameter, 126,5kg system weight, rigorous testing protokoll, so 25 to 28mm tires are fine. Are there affordable alternatives to the 303 Firecrest or these SL R 50 with >30mm outer diameter?
Light Bicycle WR50? 25mm ID, 32mm OD, can choose hooked or hookless. Have been training and racing both road and gravel with WR50, no complaints.
Sure WR50s are good rims, but the fact remains that 25mm ID and 32mm OD is not necessarily beneficial for racing wheels running 25mm tyres.

It IS beneficial for HOOKLESS rims, which NEED the extra width to make running the 72psi maximum tyre pressure workable with 25mm tyres. Wider ID makes it possible to run low pressures, especially for riders heavier than 70kg. For rims with a narrower ID 85-90psi may be the right pressure.

On the other hand running HOOKED rims and 25mm tyres means 19mm ID and 27mm OD is sufficient for some, but not all 25mm tyres.

What is more aero? Hard to say, but most racers will not run 32mm OD rims for 25mm tyres.

So as far as I can see the Propel has light hookless wheels, which need to be wider and so less areo than required.

The big question is if TOUR test the new Propel with Cadex and Zipp wheels, which ones will be more aero?
Yea 25mm is too narrow, 28mm fits nicely. It gets a bit wide on the rim, about 30mm, but works well with potholes and gravelroads, and grip is great.

warthog101
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

uppis wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:57 pm


Yea 25mm is too narrow, 28mm fits nicely. It gets a bit wide on the rim, about 30mm, but works well with potholes and gravelroads, and grip is great.
Yeah I've got a pair of hookless goers as a second set for my gravel bike. 25mm is not recommended as the tyre is too narrow.
Running road tyres now.
Currently a 28 on the front, which fits well and is as narrow as you should go.
A 32 on the back, which is too big on such a wide rim. It measures out at 35mm!
I did try them with 40mm gravel tyres on. Yeah they worked fine but weren't appreciably faster than the aluminium DT Swiss GR1600 I also have that. Do a few gravel group rides, so I rather have the aluminium goers with rocks getting thrown up.


I like that 105 equipped Propel that is posted in blue colour. That'd do me. Cable works and I don't care too much about weight. Price is more important to me and bikes are now stupidly expensive for what they are when compared to a car or motorbike imo.

kikis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:54 am

by kikis

Done more than 1500 kilometers with this and I like it better than my 2020 Propel SL

20221114_143720.jpg

vinc
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:50 pm

by vinc

kikis wrote:Done more than 1500 kilometers with this and I like it better than my 2020 Propel SL

20221114_143720.jpg
Okay. Could you tell what you like better? Is there a big difference?


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kikis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:54 am

by kikis

The new bike feels like a system than a collection of parts. Same as the previous one, it corners like it’s on rails, easier to maintain speed but feels stiffer overall than the old propel. The backend is more comfortable than the old one. I don’t think that the feeling of being more comfortable is because of the tire pressure because I am using the same pressure as my other propel. 70 at the front and 75 at the rear using the same silca pump although in the old propel I was using the Conti 5k STR with a Silca latex tube and this new propel is setup tubeless. Surprisingly the tire that comes with it feels like it rolls smoothly. I remember the stock cadex tires that came with the previous propel doesn’t feel as good as this new one. This bike performs a tad bit better on the climbs as well as on fast and tricky descents maybe because it's lighter. If I can describe this bike in one word, it would be “Fast”.

HBike
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:22 pm

by HBike

kikis wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:36 am
Done more than 1500 kilometers with this and I like it better than my 2020 Propel SL


20221114_143720.jpg
Nice, how is compliance/comfort with this (maybe compared to other bikes you used)?

elmtree
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:45 pm

by elmtree

kikis wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:36 am
Done more than 1500 kilometers with this and I like it better than my 2020 Propel SL


20221114_143720.jpg
I notice you're not using the stock bottle cages. Why is that?

spartan
Posts: 1747
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

so what is the real world weight of your propel including pedals ?
kikis wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:27 pm
The new bike feels like a system than a collection of parts. Same as the previous one, it corners like it’s on rails, easier to maintain speed but feels stiffer overall than the old propel. The backend is more comfortable than the old one. I don’t think that the feeling of being more comfortable is because of the tire pressure because I am using the same pressure as my other propel. 70 at the front and 75 at the rear using the same silca pump although in the old propel I was using the Conti 5k STR with a Silca latex tube and this new propel is setup tubeless. Surprisingly the tire that comes with it feels like it rolls smoothly. I remember the stock cadex tires that came with the previous propel doesn’t feel as good as this new one. This bike performs a tad bit better on the climbs as well as on fast and tricky descents maybe because it's lighter. If I can describe this bike in one word, it would be “Fast”.
Current Rides:

2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7

kikis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:54 am

by kikis

@HBike - I did a 250 KM ride last weekend and I felt that this is more comfortable than my 2020 Propel SL. It seems more compliant as well. While doing fast descents on bends, the back doesn't seem to hop compared to my older propel.Those smaller tubes at the back seems to have made the difference.

@elmtree - just want to test other bottle cages 🤭

@spartan - 6.7 kg with everything you see in the picture (Size S, cadex boost saddle, ti speedplay pedals, 2 water bottles, computer mount, Tubeless Setup)

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C36
Posts: 2471
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

kikis wrote:I don’t think that the feeling of being more comfortable is because of the tire pressure because I am using the same pressure as my other propel. 70 at the front and 75 at the rear using the same silca pump although in the old propel I was using the Conti 5k STR with a Silca latex tube and this new propel is setup tubeless.
Pressure Is only one aspect, how did the real tire width changed between the two bikes? I never tried your current tires but Conti do ride harsher than other high end tires.

kikis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:54 am

by kikis

C36 wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:26 am
kikis wrote:I don’t think that the feeling of being more comfortable is because of the tire pressure because I am using the same pressure as my other propel. 70 at the front and 75 at the rear using the same silca pump although in the old propel I was using the Conti 5k STR with a Silca latex tube and this new propel is setup tubeless.
Pressure Is only one aspect, how did the real tire width changed between the two bikes? I never tried your current tires but Conti do ride harsher than other high end tires.
They're both 25c tires and both measured roughly 27.5 mm in width and 22.2 mm in height installed. I'm using the scribe 50 wheels on the older propel which has 21 mm inner width hooked. The cadex measured a little bit wider at 22.4 mm inner width hookless. It could be the tyres that made the difference. :noidea:

by Weenie


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