iphone14pro + AW = no computer?

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Nickldn
Posts: 1866
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

schlafen wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:23 pm
Phone on the handlebar makes the most sense.
Why does it make the most sense and to whom?

I'd argue it makes absolutely no sense to strap a large, vulnerable and expensive phone to bike handlebars. If you have more money than sense and no taste then yes, maybe it does.

I know more people who use a Garmin watch for logging rides than their phone.

Until pros start to use iPhones in grand tours I predict the market for mobile phone road bike mounts will be small. Maybe Apple should sponsor a GC team? :D
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schlafen
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen


Nickldn wrote:
schlafen wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:23 pm
Phone on the handlebar makes the most sense.
Why does it make the most sense and to whom?

I'd argue it makes absolutely no sense to strap a large, vulnerable and expensive phone to bike handlebars. If you have more money than sense and no taste then yes, maybe it does.

I know more people who use a Garmin watch for logging rides than their phone.

Until pros start to use iPhones in grand tours I predict the market for mobile phone road bike mounts will be small. Maybe Apple should sponsor a GC team? :D
Then strap a cheaper one, not everyone is interested in iphones.

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by Weenie


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Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

schlafen wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:36 pm
Nickldn wrote:
schlafen wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:23 pm
Phone on the handlebar makes the most sense.
Why does it make the most sense and to whom?

I'd argue it makes absolutely no sense to strap a large, vulnerable and expensive phone to bike handlebars. If you have more money than sense and no taste then yes, maybe it does.

I know more people who use a Garmin watch for logging rides than their phone.

Until pros start to use iPhones in grand tours I predict the market for mobile phone road bike mounts will be small. Maybe Apple should sponsor a GC team? :D
Then strap a cheaper one, not everyone is interested in iphones.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk
But then why buy a cheap phone when you could buy a dedicated bike computer that is better in every way than the phone?

schlafen
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen


Lina wrote:
schlafen wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:23 pm
Phone on the handlebar makes the most sense. I remember when people scoffed at the idea of not carrying a wallet/card and paying with the phone instead (apple/google/samsung pay) and I can't remember the last time I used a wallet, most likely before covid.
I believe it's only a matter of time before selling an app becomes more lucrative than selling a device. All you need for good visibility is a matte screen protector but an app can also alter a screen layout. Mounting a phone to a handlebar is a piece of piss as well, if there's the drive to do so. Obviously people that like their massive phone slabs may find it a bit annoying but they can always get a smaller phone, if you can deal with a wahoo/garmin you can deal with a smaller phone, innit bruh?
Still doesn't solve the issues with battery life, vibrations killing cameras, and the phone being extremely vulnerable in a crash. I wouldn't want to crash, need a phone to call help only to notice that the phone was broken in the crash.
There's a lot that can be done to improve battery life while using the phone in bike computer mode, as most battery draining apps and functions can be turned off, no need for many apps in the background.
For ex. black backgrouds in samsung phones are pixels that are actually turned off, a function which improves battery efficiency. Other brands possibly use this function as well. The phone can go in 'extreme power saver mode' again lots can be done.

I did a few group rides with a Samsung A51 beater mounted to the stem and am happy with the results, couldn't care less about camera and vibrations. Big screen has good visibility, I don't ride with my eyes glued to the screen, a quick glance at the screen from time to time is enough and absolutely doable. If I crash and break the stem in such a way that my phone gets damaged I'm pretty sure I won't be in the position to use a phone anyway. Phones survive crashes as well.
If this is an avenue worth exploring by phone manufacturers, better phones for this sport will be developed. Low energy flexible screens that eresist impact already exist etc. Only a few years ago people were riding with cateye computers and look where we are now.
For crying out loud Hammerheads are already android phones without a sim slot.

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schlafen
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen

Lina wrote:
schlafen wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:36 pm
Nickldn wrote:
schlafen wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:23 pm
Phone on the handlebar makes the most sense.
Why does it make the most sense and to whom?

I'd argue it makes absolutely no sense to strap a large, vulnerable and expensive phone to bike handlebars. If you have more money than sense and no taste then yes, maybe it does.

I know more people who use a Garmin watch for logging rides than their phone.

Until pros start to use iPhones in grand tours I predict the market for mobile phone road bike mounts will be small. Maybe Apple should sponsor a GC team? :D
Then strap a cheaper one, not everyone is interested in iphones.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk
But then why buy a cheap phone when you could buy a dedicated bike computer that is better in every way than the phone?
Because I have no use for an expensive high end phone in day to day life and most people don't either.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk


Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

schlafen wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:06 am
Lina wrote:
schlafen wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:23 pm
Phone on the handlebar makes the most sense. I remember when people scoffed at the idea of not carrying a wallet/card and paying with the phone instead (apple/google/samsung pay) and I can't remember the last time I used a wallet, most likely before covid.
I believe it's only a matter of time before selling an app becomes more lucrative than selling a device. All you need for good visibility is a matte screen protector but an app can also alter a screen layout. Mounting a phone to a handlebar is a piece of piss as well, if there's the drive to do so. Obviously people that like their massive phone slabs may find it a bit annoying but they can always get a smaller phone, if you can deal with a wahoo/garmin you can deal with a smaller phone, innit bruh?
Still doesn't solve the issues with battery life, vibrations killing cameras, and the phone being extremely vulnerable in a crash. I wouldn't want to crash, need a phone to call help only to notice that the phone was broken in the crash.
There's a lot that can be done to improve battery life while using the phone in bike computer mode, as most battery draining apps and functions can be turned off, no need for many apps in the background.
For ex. black backgrouds in samsung phones are pixels that are actually turned off, a function which improves battery efficiency. Other brands possibly use this function as well. The phone can go in 'extreme power saver mode' again lots can be done.

I did a few group rides with a Samsung A51 beater mounted to the stem and am happy with the results, couldn't care less about camera and vibrations. Big screen has good visibility, I don't ride with my eyes glued to the screen, a quick glance at the screen from time to time is enough and absolutely doable. If I crash and break the stem in such a way that my phone gets damaged I'm pretty sure I won't be in the position to use a phone anyway. Phones survive crashes as well.
If this is an avenue worth exploring by phone manufacturers, better phones for this sport will be developed. Low energy flexible screens that eresist impact already exist etc. Only a few years ago people were riding with cateye computers and look where we are now.
For crying out loud Hammerheads are already android phones without a sim slot.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk
I've broken multiple head units in what were relatively tame crashes. Anything mounted on top or in front of the handlebars is in a prime position to get destroyed in a crash. Considering how important phones are nowadays that alone is reason enough for me to not mount my primary phone into the bars. So then it'd be between getting another phone for head unit use or get a dedicated bike computer. And phones aren't even close in usability when it comes to dedicated head units. Sure Hammerhead are essentially android phones without a sim slot. It's not the operating system that makes the phones bad as head units, it's the hardware, and the Hammerhead is designed as a head unit, not a phone.

The biggest energy drainers are the screen and GPS, can't turn either off if you want to use it as a head unit. And while oled screens have great blacks and displaying blacks doesn't consume energy the screens suffer from burn in. Especially in a head unit use, you're blasting at full brightness to drown out the sun for hours with the same pixels being lit.

schlafen
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen

Lina wrote:
schlafen wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:06 am
Lina wrote:
schlafen wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:23 pm
Phone on the handlebar makes the most sense. I remember when people scoffed at the idea of not carrying a wallet/card and paying with the phone instead (apple/google/samsung pay) and I can't remember the last time I used a wallet, most likely before covid.
I believe it's only a matter of time before selling an app becomes more lucrative than selling a device. All you need for good visibility is a matte screen protector but an app can also alter a screen layout. Mounting a phone to a handlebar is a piece of piss as well, if there's the drive to do so. Obviously people that like their massive phone slabs may find it a bit annoying but they can always get a smaller phone, if you can deal with a wahoo/garmin you can deal with a smaller phone, innit bruh?
Still doesn't solve the issues with battery life, vibrations killing cameras, and the phone being extremely vulnerable in a crash. I wouldn't want to crash, need a phone to call help only to notice that the phone was broken in the crash.
There's a lot that can be done to improve battery life while using the phone in bike computer mode, as most battery draining apps and functions can be turned off, no need for many apps in the background.
For ex. black backgrouds in samsung phones are pixels that are actually turned off, a function which improves battery efficiency. Other brands possibly use this function as well. The phone can go in 'extreme power saver mode' again lots can be done.

I did a few group rides with a Samsung A51 beater mounted to the stem and am happy with the results, couldn't care less about camera and vibrations. Big screen has good visibility, I don't ride with my eyes glued to the screen, a quick glance at the screen from time to time is enough and absolutely doable. If I crash and break the stem in such a way that my phone gets damaged I'm pretty sure I won't be in the position to use a phone anyway. Phones survive crashes as well.
If this is an avenue worth exploring by phone manufacturers, better phones for this sport will be developed. Low energy flexible screens that eresist impact already exist etc. Only a few years ago people were riding with cateye computers and look where we are now.
For crying out loud Hammerheads are already android phones without a sim slot.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk
I've broken multiple head units in what were relatively tame crashes. Anything mounted on top or in front of the handlebars is in a prime position to get destroyed in a crash. Considering how important phones are nowadays that alone is reason enough for me to not mount my primary phone into the bars. So then it'd be between getting another phone for head unit use or get a dedicated bike computer. And phones aren't even close in usability when it comes to dedicated head units. Sure Hammerhead are essentially android phones without a sim slot. It's not the operating system that makes the phones bad as head units, it's the hardware, and the Hammerhead is designed as a head unit, not a phone.

The biggest energy drainers are the screen and GPS, can't turn either off if you want to use it as a head unit. And while oled screens have great blacks and displaying blacks doesn't consume energy the screens suffer from burn in. Especially in a head unit use, you're blasting at full brightness to drown out the sun for hours with the same pixels being lit.
I've experimented with a phone and usability is fine. Not watching netflix while riding improves the riding experience alot, the screen is big enough for maps and data side by side if needed, don't need to flick between screens.

Hardware and software can be improved upon by whoever dips their toe 1st. I'de be very happy if the 1st improvement they make is to reduce the size, phone size is absolutely stupid nowadays. Brightness is not the problem, the shiny reflective screen is the problem that's why it needs to be cranked to the max.
Screen burnout was an issue with older screens as far as I'm aware, it has been improved upon. For the majority of weekend warriors and their 20mile loop on Sunday, they're not even close to a screen burnout, let's be real here.

As far as you destroying headunits, well sounds like a you problem, carbon doesn't really survive any impact, and we're not talking about RedBull Rampage type of riding here. No bike or component is designed to survive a crash nowadays.

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Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

schlafen wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:38 am
I've experimented with a phone and usability is fine. Not watching netflix while riding improves the riding experience alot, the screen is big enough for maps and data side by side if needed, don't need to flick between screens.

Hardware and software can be improved upon by whoever dips their toe 1st. I'de be very happy if the 1st improvement they make is to reduce the size, phone size is absolutely stupid nowadays. Brightness is not the problem, the shiny reflective screen is the problem that's why it needs to be cranked to the max.
Screen burnout was an issue with older screens as far as I'm aware, it has been improved upon. For the majority of weekend warriors and their 20mile loop on Sunday, they're not even close to a screen burnout, let's be real here.

As far as you destroying headunits, well sounds like a you problem, carbon doesn't really survive any impact, and we're not talking about RedBull Rampage type of riding here. No bike or component is designed to survive a crash nowadays.

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk
And most of those hardware changes to make it a better head unit would make it a worse phone, which would mean less sales because the market for bicycle head units is super small compared to the market for phones.

As for crashes. They're inevitable if you ride. It's a matter of when not if you crash. If you're racing the frequency of crashes is going to be higher compared to if you don't race. Also bikes, even carbon ones, do survive crashes quite well unless your bike gets ridden over by someone or it hits something.

schlafen
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen

[/quote]

And most of those hardware changes to make it a better head unit would make it a worse phone, which would mean less sales because the market for bicycle head units is super small compared to the market for phones.

As for crashes. They're inevitable if you ride. It's a matter of when not if you crash. If you're racing the frequency of crashes is going to be higher compared to if you don't race. Also bikes, even carbon ones, do survive crashes quite well unless your bike gets ridden over by someone or it hits something.

[/quote]

There's no money in racing by itself, if that was the case, wahoo and the like would still be unknown companies for the average rider. It's the consumer, the enthusiast, the average, that spends the loot. They give the stuff away for free to most pros even spend their own money to fund races.

People buy race wheels all the time, if one is willing to sped 4k on a set of wheels, £250 is a drop in the bucked to have as a race dedicated wahoo unit. No need for that daily. Don't kid yourself, 99% are average on this forum have never, are not, and will never race. Don;t blame them one bit, thrashing 10k equipment racing makes one pucker.

I put about 9000 miles on the bike every year and have only crashed once in the last 5 years and that was a minor spill that resulted in a non destructive crash. I also don't race, only 'races' I do are long distance audax races.

Again, the crashes you are expressing here seem to be either your poor ride skills or your riding environment, not happening all the time and everywhere like you think.

As far as phone capability, depends what you expect a phone to do, if you want a computer then the iphone 14 ultra brick is your best bet, don't strap it to a bike cause it's heavy, carry it in your pocket cause it's lighter, lol. I hope you get the chance to pay for the features you want.

I want to use it as a phone (hence the name), 4G data is fine (data speed is not the issue nowadays, coverage is the problem), GPS/BLE/WiFi/NFC connectivity, touchscreen (we're not savages), android, basic apps (Strava, Garmin connect and the lot) camera (if non protrouding, otherwise can do without) batteries have come a long way too and be iPhone 5S sized (which is roughly karoo sized, less than half the thickness).

I don't need the thing to be able to drive my car and make me pancakes, I would also like the option to NOT pay for useless features like 5 cameras and a purse just to be able to lug the brick around. My requirements are not out of this world, everything exists already, it only needs to be repackaged and priced accordingly. I expect them to sell absolutely loads of them to non cyclists. But if they do that, who's going to buy the bricks?

Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

schlafen wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:43 pm
There's no money in racing by itself, if that was the case, wahoo and the like would still be unknown companies for the average rider. It's the consumer, the enthusiast, the average, that spends the loot. They give the stuff away for free to most pros even spend their own money to fund races.

People buy race wheels all the time, if one is willing to sped 4k on a set of wheels, £250 is a drop in the bucked to have as a race dedicated wahoo unit. No need for that daily. Don't kid yourself, 99% are average on this forum have never, are not, and will never race. Don;t blame them one bit, thrashing 10k equipment racing makes one pucker.

I put about 9000 miles on the bike every year and have only crashed once in the last 5 years and that was a minor spill that resulted in a non destructive crash. I also don't race, only 'races' I do are long distance audax races.

Again, the crashes you are expressing here seem to be either your poor ride skills or your riding environment, not happening all the time and everywhere like you think.

As far as phone capability, depends what you expect a phone to do, if you want a computer then the iphone 14 ultra brick is your best bet, don't strap it to a bike cause it's heavy, carry it in your pocket cause it's lighter, lol. I hope you get the chance to pay for the features you want.

I want to use it as a phone (hence the name), 4G data is fine (data speed is not the issue nowadays, coverage is the problem), GPS/BLE/WiFi/NFC connectivity, touchscreen (we're not savages), android, basic apps (Strava, Garmin connect and the lot) camera (if non protrouding, otherwise can do without) batteries have come a long way too and be iPhone 5S sized (which is roughly karoo sized, less than half the thickness).

I don't need the thing to be able to drive my car and make me pancakes, I would also like the option to NOT pay for useless features like 5 cameras and a purse just to be able to lug the brick around. My requirements are not out of this world, everything exists already, it only needs to be repackaged and priced accordingly. I expect them to sell absolutely loads of them to non cyclists. But if they do that, who's going to buy the bricks?
Most racing happens by average people that buy their own stuff.

Even you admit that crashes happen. All my head unit destroying crashes have been ones where I continue the ride without even going straight home. And they don't happen all the time, it's been a couple years since the last one where I destroyed a head unit. But still wouldn't want to strap a device that has my banking, and both work and personal 2FA stuff on it to the handlebars. Because it's a massive pain in the ass to not have access to that for even a couple days.

schlafen
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:51 pm

by schlafen

Lina wrote:
schlafen wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:43 pm
There's no money in racing by itself, if that was the case, wahoo and the like would still be unknown companies for the average rider. It's the consumer, the enthusiast, the average, that spends the loot. They give the stuff away for free to most pros even spend their own money to fund races.

People buy race wheels all the time, if one is willing to sped 4k on a set of wheels, £250 is a drop in the bucked to have as a race dedicated wahoo unit. No need for that daily. Don't kid yourself, 99% are average on this forum have never, are not, and will never race. Don;t blame them one bit, thrashing 10k equipment racing makes one pucker.

I put about 9000 miles on the bike every year and have only crashed once in the last 5 years and that was a minor spill that resulted in a non destructive crash. I also don't race, only 'races' I do are long distance audax races.

Again, the crashes you are expressing here seem to be either your poor ride skills or your riding environment, not happening all the time and everywhere like you think.

As far as phone capability, depends what you expect a phone to do, if you want a computer then the iphone 14 ultra brick is your best bet, don't strap it to a bike cause it's heavy, carry it in your pocket cause it's lighter, lol. I hope you get the chance to pay for the features you want.

I want to use it as a phone (hence the name), 4G data is fine (data speed is not the issue nowadays, coverage is the problem), GPS/BLE/WiFi/NFC connectivity, touchscreen (we're not savages), android, basic apps (Strava, Garmin connect and the lot) camera (if non protrouding, otherwise can do without) batteries have come a long way too and be iPhone 5S sized (which is roughly karoo sized, less than half the thickness).

I don't need the thing to be able to drive my car and make me pancakes, I would also like the option to NOT pay for useless features like 5 cameras and a purse just to be able to lug the brick around. My requirements are not out of this world, everything exists already, it only needs to be repackaged and priced accordingly. I expect them to sell absolutely loads of them to non cyclists. But if they do that, who's going to buy the bricks?
Most racing happens by average people that buy their own stuff.

Even you admit that crashes happen. All my head unit destroying crashes have been ones where I continue the ride without even going straight home. And they don't happen all the time, it's been a couple years since the last one where I destroyed a head unit. But still wouldn't want to strap a device that has my banking, and both work and personal 2FA stuff on it to the handlebars. Because it's a massive pain in the ass to not have access to that for even a couple days.
No it doesn't. Sportives and charity rides are not races. Polishing your bike and posting on instagram is not racing either. Not trying to shame anyone, they can do whatever they want with their bikes, just making a distinction here as racing is destructive by nature, in any discipline.

Of course crashes happen, I'm not delusional. But what you presented here as anecdotal evidence for your particular case, seems more aggro that what I and any other riders I know went through in all my years of riding.
Phones can be built tough too. The smaller the phone is, the tougher it is anyway, if not made out of glass, literally, like they are made now.

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Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

schlafen wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:31 pm
No it doesn't. Sportives and charity rides are not races. Polishing your bike and posting on instagram is not racing either. Not trying to shame anyone, they can do whatever they want with their bikes, just making a distinction here as racing is destructive by nature, in any discipline.
I'm not even counting sportives and charity rides to racing here, but I'm counting that cat 5 race as racing. Also the fast end of most sportives definitely counts as racing even if there is no official timekeeping. Most racing happens by amateurs. There are a lot more amateur racers that buy their own stuff than there are professionals. Pros are the 1%.

choochoo46
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 am

by choochoo46

As a weight weinie I've recently been leaving my phone at home and just taking my cell-enabled Apple watch. At coffee stops I can use Apple Pay. In my area it has about the same reception as my iPhone 13 mini and gives me a back up in case I need to call for a ride home. There's no Uber or Lyft app for Apple Watch, though. Not carrying my phone opens up a free jersey pocket, where I carry my repair kit (as I don't run a saddle bag).

Vuong05
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:52 am

by Vuong05

Lina wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:50 pm
schlafen wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:31 pm
No it doesn't. Sportives and charity rides are not races. Polishing your bike and posting on instagram is not racing either. Not trying to shame anyone, they can do whatever they want with their bikes, just making a distinction here as racing is destructive by nature, in any discipline.
I'm not even counting sportives and charity rides to racing here, but I'm counting that cat 5 race as racing. Also the fast end of most sportives definitely counts as racing even if there is no official timekeeping. Most racing happens by amateurs. There are a lot more amateur racers that buy their own stuff than there are professionals. Pros are the 1%.
I agree,

Using a phone as a head unit just isnt a good idea for me. Crashes are inevitable in this sport, and I rather replace my Wahoo Roam, than my Samsung galaxy phone after a crash. Use whatever you like, but to me, a phone is not a replacment for a dedicated bike computer right now. :noidea:
Current Stable. Evo (Storm Trooper) : 5.39kg | Alchemy Eros : Heavy (7.25kg) I Specialized Allez Sprint 2022 : Heavy (7.62kg)

cheapvega
Posts: 388
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

Weird that people who spend so much on bikes are unwilling to spend even like $40 on a diet cheap head unit. I feel like you can get a head unit for less than a decent phone mount. There's really zero reason to use a phone as an HU. It's just a bad idea

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by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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